Ne montez pas sur vos grands chevaux*
By Edouard
Posted on October 20th, 2008 in General
Looks like some of my last posts (here, and here) have really (like, really) angered a particular category of people: cynical French breeders who make big money out of breeding and selling “pseudo-Arabian” racehorses. They are now fully mobilized and want to launch a campaign to defend their horses by the next WAHO conference. Some even stand ready to destroy the reputation of anyone who dares pointing a accusatory finger at their horses.
Poor them. They think they are victims of another campaign to kick their horses out of WAHO - now that they have recovered from the Manganate controversy that erupted at the 1974 WAHO conference in Sweden.
Don’t worry, cynical French breeders of “pseudo-Arabians”. There is nothing to be scared of. Your livelihood will not be threatened, and your financial interests are safe. WAHO will certainly keep you in its fold. Its circular, hopelessly tautological definition protects your horses: “A pure-bred Arabian horse is one which appears in any pure-bred Arabian Stud Book or Register listed by WAHO as acceptable”. That’s bullet-proof.
My two posts - and the others to follow 
- are not an attempt to throw French pseudo-Arabians out of WAHO, this low-ceiling benchmark of purity. I do actually believe these horses should stay there. They are in excellent company, with all the other non-Asil “Arabians”. The only difference is that many of these French horses have a little more - emm, a lot more - non-Arabian blood than the Skowroneks and the Fetysz of this world, the descendents of which form more than 90% of the horses recognized by WAHO as “pure-bred Arabians”. A little more, a little less English Thoroughbred blood does not matter.
What is really needed is an international registry of Asil Arabians horses that excludes these horses, and others like them, or at the very least acknowledges them for what they are — partbred Arabians. In fact, a simple database will do. There are already people and organizations working on this all over the world. Their efforts only need to be federated.
By the way, concerned horse breeders should start paying attention to Y-chromosome DNA analysis. For instance, I would be really curious to see whether three of the French “pseudo-Arabian” sire lines from Djerba Oua, through his sons [sic?]: Gosse du Bearn, Ba-Toustem and Mad Oua share the same Y-chromosome, which they should, of course.
An independent study would be warranted, of course. But I will not be the one calling for it, as I don’t make a living out of this stuff. My day job is already keeping me pretty busy, anyway. okay, off to a meeting now. How I hate Mondays.
* A common French expression that literally means “Don’t ride your big horses” and means “No need to get angry” about something.
October 20th, 2008 10:44 pm
In English, I believe that is “Get off your high horse!”
October 21st, 2008 10:34 am
hehe Edouard,
you are now experimenting the “French” “ne changez rien à mes habitudes!!
We have the same troubles with our own association and it is hard just to explain sometimes that Asil arabians exist…
Hope you will join us in our meeting, by the way it is in june!!
Keep going your wonderful hardwork, photos etc…
October 21st, 2008 10:34 am
Why not ask Deb Bennett to analyze the french arabians DNA??
October 21st, 2008 11:47 am
Thanks Clothilde, June sounds good!
October 21st, 2008 10:45 pm
I sent acopy of “ne montez pas sur vos grans chevaux” to French breeders,to WAHo and to Val Bunting and Basil Jedaan both of them members of the WAHO executive comittee,asking all of them to take in consideration your proposition of testing the Y chromosome of some of the French Lines ,this will help to clear once for all all doubts about them.
October 22nd, 2008 12:36 am
Clothilde,who is Deb Bennett?
Joe, good suggestion. Not sure it will clear all doubts, maybe only some..
October 24th, 2008 1:50 pm
Edouard,
Deb Bennett is a well-regarded speaker on equine biomechanics and anatomy. I think you already have better resources for DNA analysis than she could provide.
October 24th, 2008 5:55 pm
My understanding of the state of Y-chromosome analysis is that they are not able to differentiate types from it yet, so until that changes, that avenue is not available.
October 24th, 2008 7:30 pm
Jeanne, what do you mean by types in this context?
October 25th, 2008 11:38 pm
My understanding is that they can’t differentiate families. All of the Y chromosomes are testing alike. Perhaps as time goes by, they will be able to identify branches. It does sound counter-intuitive, doesn’t it?
October 27th, 2008 5:34 am
to jeanne
please explain the following:
I have 2 horses with the same grand grand sire lets say Nazeer ,they Y chromosome wont be the same?
If one of them is not the grand grand son of Nazeer(pedigree error)will it shows in the Y chromosome?
October 27th, 2008 5:23 pm
The last I’ve seen, as Jeanne states, there have been no differences detected in the Y chromosomes of different male lines in the horse–the Y chromosome DNA tests alike, even across different breeds.
One would expect male lines to be as easily differentiated as dam lines, but this is not the case in the horse (unlike other species tested such as dogs and humans). I find this observation to be just fascinating.
October 27th, 2008 8:27 pm
Not just fascinating, Michael—it just blows my mind, thinking that all males of all horse breeds so far tested trace to one stallion. I had assumed there would be a similar situation to mtDNA, but with much less variation. But not THIS much less!
October 28th, 2008 12:14 am
sorry Jeanne and Michael :as my tecnical and scientific english is weak.
please explain the following:
I have 2 horses with the same grand grand sire lets say Nazeer ,they Y chromosome wont be the same?
If one of them is not the grand grand son of Nazeer,as stated in its pedigree,will it shows in the Y chromosome
October 28th, 2008 11:06 am
Hi Joe,
As I am not very technical, maybe my explanation will help, if I am understanding this correctly.
Both of your stallions would test the same. Even if you had 100 stallions of many different breeds: Arabian, Thoroughbred, Shire, Andalusian, ponies, etc., they would all test the same.
Jenny
October 28th, 2008 12:03 pm
So I can prove that the 2 horses have the same grand grand father: Nazeer.
If one of them is not the Nazeer grand grand son it will also shows.
thank you for responding because I do have a problem.