Simply my favorite equine website

By Edouard Aldahdah

Posted on June 18th, 2010 in General

You really need to visit this website: http://www.akhalteke.info/. I am serious. Start with the introduction, and go through the history and purity chapters, then the rest. The ‘politics’ chapter is also interesting.

It has nothing to do with Arabians, but is instead about this famous other eastern horse, the Akhal Teke. Except that, unlike most websites on the Akhal Teke, it methodically and relentlessly deconstructs all the myths and folklore surrounding the origins of the Akhal Teke (e.g. that it is the oldest ‘pure’ breed in the world, that it is the horse of the Scythian tribes of 3000 B.C., that is was kept unmixed with foreign blood in remote desert areas, etc, etc). It tells you the REAL story of the breed, about how the breed was managed (or rather, mismanaged) by the Soviets, who cross-bred it with English Thoroughbreds, and kept valuables lines outside the formal Akhal Teke Studbook. It puts informed criticism and hard facts before romanticized mythology and brand marketing. It is simply impressive. It’s the most impressive bofy of information I have ever come across online, all horse breeds considered.

25 Responses to “Simply my favorite equine website

  1. Superb website!

  2. From Joe Achcar:

    “”The peoples of the South, the Arabians, appreciated the horses of central asia as well. Arabia was not remarked for its horse-breeding during the graeco-persian wars. Neither Straton (1st century A.C.), nor Vegetius (4th century A.C.) mentioned arabian horses, though they wrote in detail about the horse breeds of other countries. It is proven that Mohammed’s army was mounted on camels. There were but few horses, spoils of war themselves. The Koran names the camel, the mule, the donkey of the Prophet, it does not name a horse.””

    Therer is some errors in this statement:
    –If Straton or Vegetius did not mentionned Arabian Horses,Pline the Young.(Pline le Jeune) Rome’s miltary governor in Syria 89 AC (Tribun Militaire de Rome en Syrie 89 apres JC) mention:
    “Arabs are warriors and they cant be catch due to their fast horses” (les Arabes sont des guerriers et personne ne peut les rattraper ceci a cause de la raspidite de leurs chevaux).

    — According to Raswan, ancient books mentions the Phoenicians trading horses trough their establishments around the Mediterranean sea

    –the Holy Koran do name the Prophet horses ,the most famous were “Al Ward” and “al Lazzaz” who was a gift from the Christian Patriach of Egypt together with “Maria” a Christian women who gave the Prophet “Ibrahim” his only son.

    — Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 40, Number 559:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    Allah’s Apostle said, “Keeping horses may be a source of reward to some
    (man), a shelter to another (i.e. means of earning one’s living), or a
    burdento a third.
    He to whom the horse will be a source of reward is the one who
    keeps it in Allah’s Cause (prepare it for holy battles) and ties it by a
    long rope in a pasture (or a garden). He will get a reward equal to what its long
    rope allows it to eat in the pasture or the garden, and if that horse
    breaks its rope and crosses one or two hills, then all its foot-steps and
    its dung will be counted as good deeds for its owner; and if it passes by a
    river and drinks from it, then that will also be regarded as a good deed for
    its owner even if he has had no intention of watering it then.

    Horses are a shelter from poverty to the second person who keeps horses for
    earning his living so as not to ask others, and at the same time he gives
    Allah’s right (i.e. Zakat, from the wealth he earns through using them in
    trading etc.,) and does not overburden them.
    He who keeps horses just out of pride and for showing off and as a means of harming the Muslims, his horses
    will be a source of sins to him.” When Allah’s Apostle was asked about
    donkeys, he replied, “Nothing particular was revealed to me regarding
    donkeys.”

  3. Would love to have Michael B’s comments on the genetic information shown on that website (under the Genetics section, the subsection “Breeding Schemes”

    The site is fascinating. Wish there were references shown for some of the statements.

    Anita

  4. ” The Arabian Thoroughbred has been found to be a hybrid of Caspian and Turkoman.”, which they say is a conclusion based on genetic markers from the Turks showing up in Arabians.. I think not. Because the website doesn’t tell us how the genetic samples tested by Dr. Cothrans were obtained, or where they were obtained. For example which Arabian lines were reviewed? Were they from Skowronek line horses which were recently reaffirmed to have non arabs in the dam line? Or were they from Russian Arabs bred at Tersk? Or were the samples from Davenports or Saudi line horses bred by Edie Booth? This reminds me of the ,” Research Report,” on the purity of the polish Arabs in which the scientists compared Polish Arabian genetic samples
    with so called ,”purebred”, genetic samples. The problem here also is that the scientists don’t tell you where the Polish genetic samples were obtained, or where they got their ,” asil,” or Al Khamsa genetic samples. So once again if the reports don’t mention sources they arean’t valid. In this instance they don’t mention if their conclusions werebased on WAHO horses or Asil, or Al Khamsa stock. So there really isn’t a valid conclusion..
    The problem i have with all of these ,’ this is the worlds oldest breed,” breed associations” is that they take any of several breeds descended from the proto hot blood- type 4 horse, find some genetic markers and then claim that eureka our Turkman, or Caspian, or Kiger Mustang, or Andalusion or WAHO Arab, is the oldest breed of horse in the world. What most of this genetic marker business means is that many of these breeds had common root anscestor stock, and that these breeds were then bred away from that common root stock to create the breed being discussed. For example Andalusions and Kiger mustangs reputedly have the same number 2 locus, IIRC. It is known that both descend from the old Spanish Jennet. Hence they are related- think cousins with common grandparents- but are both equally distant from those grandparents so are certainly seperate and distinct breeds.
    As for Turkman genetic markers showing up in Arabians- what a wonderful affirmation of Raswans Muniqi theory.
    Best wishes
    Bruce Peek

  5. Here is another web site on the Turkoman horses. It was highly controversial in its day within the Akhal Teke community.

  6. Well, sorry ’bout that, but here’s the website I forgot to include:

    http://www.turanianhorse.org/

  7. We respect Dr Cothrans and the late Mrs. Louise Ferouz, findings (Mrs Ferouz is an American who studied at the American University of Beirut) were she met her Iranian husband, even if don’t agree with their conclusions: That the Arab is a mix of Turcoman and Caspian.For the time being,we are still waiting for the presence of Caspian horse blood in Arab horses.
    As for Turkmen genetic markers showing up in Arabians, I think that the contrary is also true ;History tell us that Persian Emperors use to bring Arab stallions to improve the Turkmen horses (As I’m at my farm in Damascus ,I cant give the name of the famous Persian Emperor ,as soon I go at my Beirut home I will post the name).

    I don’t deny either the presence of Turkmen blood in some Arab horses, I know that this will shock a lot of you, but we must not hide our head in the sand.

    There was other breeds of horses than the Arabian in Syria and Mesopotamia

    –Louis Damoiseau the French veterinary of the de Portes mission to buy Arab stallions in1819/1820 noticed the presence near Aleppo of Turcoman tribes and Turcoman horses called “Tchoukour Ova” .He wrote also of “Barak Arab horses”?
    — The “Shimali” or Northern horses: these are the stock which existed in Al Jazira before the coming of the Nejdian Bedouins hordes Aneze (Amarat) and Shammar starting the second half of the 17th century, it is very possible that these horses (who still exist in Syria) have Turkmen blood. the winners of 160 km and 120km endurance races in Syria today are often “Shimali” horses.
    –The Mesopotamia now known as Syrian and Iraqi Al Jezira, were the road to Damascus ,the city were the Hajj caravan started each year to join the Holy city of Mecca, or the road to the merchants gate of the Orient the city of Aleppo.
    Travelers ,Merchants from Persia use to cross Mesopotamia and the Syrian Badia to join these two cities ,a lot of them mounted on Turcoman horses. Major General Tweedie mentions them as a mixed of Arabs and Turcoman (I will post later the name from Beirut) but I think it is “Armajak”.
    We can imagine different scenarios for the presence of Turcoman blood in Arab horses ,discarding the ridiculous Raswan Muniqi theory.
    The war mare of the Bedouins was the main goal of producing pure bred horses These mares had to be able to protect their owner from a raid (Gazu) or to enable him to raid other tribes. These horses (mares) had to have the known Arab horse qualities.
    And if these qualities could be found in an other breed? As far as we know the Turcoman horse have the same qualities that a Bedouin was looking for in his war mare.
    We can imagine a Bedouin, who had lost his Arab mare buying a Turcoman mare and use her to raid ,mate her by an Arab stallion and use her daughter for the same purpose. It is just a scenario but it could have happened.
    Here we enter in the world of “Hajeen” horses mentioned by Edouard, these horses the product of an Arab stallion with a Persian mare, Turkmenistan was then part of the Persian Empire. According to the Bedu, in ancient writings, these horses where some times more beautiful than a pure Arab ,the contrary (Turkmen stallion mated with an Arab mare was not accepted and called “Mukrif” or disgusting.
    Here one should remember General Mikhail el Haddad words in his book on his journey in Iraq 1902/3 to buy horses for the famed Babolna Stud.” I saw nearly 450 horses at the Shammar, which 50 only are pure”.
    Naïve Westerners buyers could have be easily fooled by these “Hajeen” horses and brought them back as Pure Arabs.Maybe the descendents of these horses were used for testing by Dr Cothrans and Mrs. Ferouz?
    All the best

  8. Yes Joe, ” Maybe the descendents of these horses were used for testing by Dr Cothrans and Mrs. Ferouz?”. Thats exactly it. I would be much more inclined to accept the reported findings that the Turkomans are anscestral to Asil Arabs, if we knew whether or not the samples were from blue star stock or whether or not they came from
    WAHO horses, which we know for certain had Persian and Turkish blood from the Polish and other Eastern European stud farms. To be very clear, I am not saying that babolnas purebreds were not Asil. We know for sure that under General Haddad and his sucessors great efforts were made to ensure a nucleus of Asil horses were maintaned for purposes of top crossing into the shagyas in order to preserve Arabian soundness, intelligence and thriftyness. For purposes of clear discussion I say that if you compare any sample of genetic material from sources
    that were known to have been crossed with Persian and Turkish horses with other samples who may be more distantly related to crossbreds, the Persian and Turkish genetic material will still be there. It is only by comparing Blue Stars for example, with the WAHO samples, and the Persian and Turkoman samples that you will find out if there are genetic markers from the Turkomans present in Asil stock.
    To put it another way, an informed observer of breeding trends in both WAHO and Asil stock, would upon learning of Dr. Cothrans work reply, of course there are Turkoman genetic markers in Waho horses, numerous Polish,” Arabians,” are descended from Tarpan, Turkoman, and Thoroughbred horses, in addition to being top crossed to Arab stallions. What we need to do clear things up is to find out if Dr. Cothrans samples were drawn from Blue stars, and to see if his findings can be replicated by other labs. Because until those steps are taken we don’t know for sure.
    Best wishes
    Bruce Peek

  9. I’m still not convinced how much these “breed-specific” markers can actually tell us. To quote from replies to an earlier entry on this blog:

    Ambar said:
    janvier 27th, 2010 %H:%M
    Considering the amount of Arabian topcrossing that was used to create the English Thoroughbred, any similarity at the DNA level between the two breeds is already explained, and cannot support an investigation of alleged historic « contamination » of the Arabian line.

    R.J. Cadranell said:
    janvier 28th, 2010 %H:%M
    Yes Ambar, good point. I’ll make one more point: assuming you could identify a marker that seemed to be unique to Thoroughbreds and Thoroughbred crosses, you would have no way of knowing whether it was originally an Arabian marker that went extinct in the Middle East but was preserved in the Thoroughbred breed.

    These remarks referred to Thoroughbreds, but couldn’t they just as easily apply to any other breed that had crosses to Arabians, or to breeds that share common ancestors with Arabians?

  10. Well not really. Just got off the phone with Dr. Cothrans. He said that while the study he did of Blue Stars compared to other breeds was performed some years ago he did not recall any Akhal Teke markers showing up in the Blue Star sample. Cothrans also said that its extremely difficult to tell where specific genetic markers came from in horses which share descent from common anscestors. So for example if Thoroughbreds were crossed into Akhal Tekes which we know they were the Thoroughbred with its genetic constituents, including at least some Arabian, would of course show up.
    Also Cothrans said one of his PHD students from Syria is one year into a three year study of several strains of Arabians looking for similarities and differences between them. This should be a truly definitive study which I would think would be able to answer many of the questions we have had about what happened to the various horses that were exported from Arabia.
    Best wishes
    Bruce Peek

  11. Thanks, Bruce!

    “…its extremely difficult to tell where specific genetic markers came from in horses which share descent from common anscestors. So for example if Thoroughbreds were crossed into Akhal Tekes which we know they were the Thoroughbred with its genetic constituents, including at least some Arabian, would of course show up.”
    Is pretty much what I was talking about. Sorry if I was being unclear.

    The Syrian student’s project sounds very interesting! Is this the one for which a large number of samples have recently been collected from Arabians in the U.S.(and probably other countries)?

  12. Sorry to go off on a tangent!
    The parts about the Arabian horse on this Akhal-Teke website are minor.

    Even if you are not particularly interested in Tekes, the A-T blog has a wealth of information and much food for thought. Many of the issues that have affected, and continue to affect, the A-Ts, are similar to ones in the Arabian. I also urge you to check it out.

  13. Joe,
    that persian Emperor was Nadir Shah – I think.

    László

  14. Jenny- I’m not sure if the samples recently gathered are for the Syrian students project or not. Cothrans did say that not just U.S. Arabians are contributing samples. This is what makes this kind of exciting news.
    Laszlo: Are you referring to the Persian Emperor whose bodyguard was mounted on Akhal Tekes which were subsequently crossed into the Arabian gene pool?
    Best wishes
    Bruce Peek

  15. Dear Bruce
    you wrote ” if we knew whether or not the samples were from blue star stock or whether or not they came from
    WAHO horses, which we know for certain had Persian and Turkish blood from the Polish and other Eastern European stud farms.”
    No my friend I was not thinking about Polish horses and that some of them have the blood of “Zboj” a Turkoman stallion trough his daughter “Persja”.
    I was thinking about horses that some people believe that they are “Asil” or Blue Star or what ever name you gave them.

    No one can tell on the “look” if a horse is a pure Arabian or not.I have seen a lot of mixed Arabs in Lebanon race track having more “Arab” caracteristics than the pure ,dished face and carrying their tail very high ,Edouard should remeber seing these horses too.(one of them called “Sattam” belonging to our friend Counsellor Khamis)
    So a lot of the “Asilness” of a horse was depending on the honesty of the guide and the translator (sometimes the Guide knowing the taste of the buyer for a certain strain used to send someone to inform the tribe to be visited of this so the seller gave the buyer the wanted
    “Strain” )

    Dont take the Bedouin for what they are not:
    Selling a horse to an Arab townsman or a mare to a fellow Bedouin ,they dont lie about the origin of the horse.
    But selling to a Christian European who is going to take the horse or the mare away,In that case my friend they are capable to lie on their mother origin.

    Dont forget that until more or less the end(1880) of the 19th century Christians were forbiden to mount on horses in the Moslem word,so selling “mongrels” to them was “halal” or “Permitted”(if any one doubt about this just let me know,and I will post the proof.)

    Until today some fanatic Moslem breeders are not very happy to see my horses winning the title of “Syrian National Champion” only because I’m a Christian Arab

    Moreover the word “Asil” may not have the same signification for us today ,that it had 100 years,or more,ago.
    i.e. In the Vol II of the Raswan Index there is 4 pages of photos of an Egyptian Pasha 1895 Herd Book,were the products of Arabian stallions and English mares were under “Asils” or in Arabic “Assayels”

    On the other side Dr Olms President of the Asil Club and Mrs,Hansi Melnyck mmember of the Board of Directors of the same club believe firmly that “Ofir was the last Asil stallion in Poland” Mrs Melnyk stated this to me in a private communication.

    This to show you my frieds how vague is the “Asil horse” concept
    Best wishes to all from Damascus

  16. DHIMMIS (Christians and Jews) in the Islamic word

    This texts below were taken from Google .the original is in French and translated by Google.
    There you will see that even European Consuls were not allowed to mount on horses,(not pure Arabs those dont even think about them, but Kadish)only with an exceptionnal permission of the ruling Pasha.
    So what about a Bedouin in the desert selling them a Pure Arab horse?

    Please note than either Edouard family(a noble family of Christian Sheiks or mine) living in our Lebanese Mountains were subjects to this “Dhimmi law”.Only Syrian Christians and Christians living on the Lebanese coast under Moslem Ottoman rules had to follow these rules.
    ——————————————-Quoting Google

    Islamiquement incorrect: Interdits et obligations du dhimmi pour … – [ Translate this page ]
    Les chevaux et les chameaux, animaux nobles, étaient interdits aux dhimmis …. Al-Adawi « Fetoua »[1772] ; Réponse à une question » tr. de l’arabe par … Al- Damanhûri, Iqamaat al Hujja al-bahira ala hadm kana’is Misr wa-l-Qahira [1739 …
    islamiquementincorrect.blogspot.com/…/linterdiction-de-monter-cheval-pour -les.html – Cached – Similar
    This is the translation (Dhimmis means Christians and Jews) people who were paying the tax called: Dhimma

    Interdits et obligations du dhimmi pour se déplacer (1) Prohibitions and obligations of the dhimmi to move (1)
    Les chevaux et les chameaux, animaux nobles, étaient interdits aux dhimmis. The horses and camels, noble animals, were forbidden to dhimmis. Ceux-ci devaient se contenter d’ânes, dont l’usage à certaines époques ne fut permis qu’à l’extérieur des villes. They had to settle for donkeys, whose use at certain times was possible only outside the cities. Seuls des bâts en guise de selles, munis d’étriers grossiers en bois furent autorisés : Only saddles as a stool, armed with rude wooden stirrups were allowed:

    « L’infidèle, sujet de notre Souverain, ne saurait monter à cheval, mais “The infidel subject of our sovereign, can not ride, but
    l’âne ou le mulet lui sont permis quelle qu’en soit la valeur ; il doit se the donkey or mule he is authorized to whatever value it must
    servir d’un ikâf[bât] et d’étriers en bois, car les étriers en fer lui sont use a Ikafe [BAT] and wooden stirrups, stirrups as iron it
    défendus aussi bien que la selle ; sur le chemin il doit se ranger de côté pour defended as well as the saddle on the road he must stand aside for
    laisser passer un Musulman ; on ne saurait le traiter en personnage let a Muslim, he should not be treated as character
    d’importance, ni lui donner la première place dans une réunion » importance, nor give him first place in a meeting ”

    Nawawi , III Minjâd p.285. Nawawi, III Minjâd p.285.

    Cet aspect de la soumission est bien remarqué par les différents voyageurs occidentaux visitant les terres d’islam. This aspect of submission is noticed by the various Western travelers visiting the lands of Islam. D’autant plus que cette pratique s’applique à leur personne. Especially since this practice applies to the person.

    “Et il ya une coutume en Syrie, que nul Chrétien qui soit connu n’ose “And there is a custom in Syria, that no Christian who dares to be known
    aller à cheval parmi les rues des villes. to ride through the streets of cities. Pour cette cause, notre[moucre] nous For this cause, our [moucre] we
    fait descendre messire et moi .” sent down sir and me. ”

    Bertrandon de la Broquière Le voyage d’outremer de Bertrandon de La Broquière, premier écuyer tranchant et conseiller de Philippe le Bon, duc de Bourgogne publ. Bertrandon of Broquière The trip overseas to Bertrandon La Broquière first carver and adviser to Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy publ. et annot. and annot. par Ch. Schefer, Paris, Leroux, 1892 p.32-33 by C. Schefer, Paris, Leroux, 1892 p.32-33
    Disponible en version originale[vieux français] http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1037921/f116.table Available in original [Old French] http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1037921/f116.table

    Quelques siècles plus tard, une expédition diplomatique du roi de France est soumis à ce même régime humiliant. A few centuries later, a diplomatic dispatch from the King of France is subject to the same humiliating scheme.

    “M . Begue monta à cheval le demain de grand matin. Ses officiers étaient sur “M. Begue mounted horse tomorrow morning. The officers were on
    des mulets, tous les autres sur des ânes ; c’est le cérémonial de l’Egypte. mules, all others on donkeys and is the ceremonial of Egypt. Il It
    n’est permis qu’aux Consuls d’avoir un cheval ; encore faut-il que le Pacha le Consuls are allowed only to have a horse, it is still necessary that the Pasha
    leur donne, ou le leur prête. gives them, or their nominee. Ses officiers par grâce ont des mulets, et tout le His officers have by using mules, and all
    reste de quelque qualité qu’ils soient n’ont que des ânes, voiture à la vérité remains of some quality they have that are asses, car indeed
    assez commode ; mais qui marque le mépris que les Turcs font des Chrétiens et quite comfortable, but that marks the contempt that the Turks are Christians and
    des juifs , qu’ils traitent à peu près de la même manière ” Jews, they deal in much the same way ”

    Mémoires du chevalier d’Arvieux, envoyé extraordinaire du Roy à la Porte, consul d’Alep, d’Alger, de Tripoli et autres Échelles du Levant : contenant ses voyages à Constantinople, dans l’Asie, la Syrie, la Palestine, l’Égypte et la Barbarie… Memoires du Chevalier d’Arvieux, Envoy Extraordinary to the King’s Gate, consul of Aleppo, Algiers, Tripoli and other scales of the Levant: containing his travels to Constantinople, in Asia, Syria, Palestine, l ‘Egypt and Barbary … / recueillis… / Collected … de ses Mémoires originaux et mis en ordre par le RP Jean-Baptiste Labat,..Volume I, p.165 Memoirs of original and arranged by Father Jean Baptiste Labat, .. Volume I, p.165
    Disponible en version originale[vieux français] sur : http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/CadresFenetre?O=NUMM-61866&M=imageseule Available in original [Old French] on: http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/CadresFenetre?O=NUMM-61866&M=imageseule

    Un siècle plus tard, c’est au tour d’un représentant de la couronne britannique d’employer les moyens de transport de la dhimmitude. A century later, it was the turn of a representative of the British Crown to use the transport of dhimmitude.
    Ainsi, Alexander Drummond, consul britannique à Alep (1771-1758) décrivit, non sans humour l’inconfort d’une telle monture lors de son passage à Famagouste(Chypre) Therefore, Alexander Drummond, the British Consul in Aleppo (1771-1758) described, not without humor discomfort of a beast during his visit to Famagusta (Cyprus)

    « Je montais une mule fournie d’un bât rembourré déchiré et ravaudé, si “I rode a mule provided a padded saddle torn and darned if
    encombrant, que je traînais comme un mendiant sur un sac de laine ; au lieu d’un cumbersome, I was hanging like a beggar on a sack of wool instead of a
    fouet, on me donna un bâton aiguisé, d’un pied de long, avec lequel je devais whip it gave me a sharp stick, a foot long, with whom I had
    piquer l’épaule du paresseux animal pour accélérer son pas ; des éperons biting the shoulder of the lazy animal to accelerate his pace; spurs
    auraient été aussi inutiles qu’un fouet, car mes jambes étaient si écartées, que have been as useless as a whip, because my legs were so wide apart, as
    je n’aurais pu approcher mon talon d’un demi-yard du flanc de l’animal. I could approach my heel half a yard from the side of the animal. Toutes All
    ces circonstances rendirent mon voyage si malaisé, que je fus obligé de me These circumstances made my journey so difficult that I was obliged to
    remuer de cinq cents façons avant de terminer mon voyage, qui bien que je ne stir five hundred ways before ending my trip, which although I do
    comptant pas plus de 24 milles, me fatigua autant que si j’avais parcouru plus with no more than 24 miles, I tired as if I had traveled more
    de cent milles par jour. hundred miles a day. Comme les Turcs ne permettent pas aux Chrétiens de As the Turks did not allow Christians
    monter en ville, je fus obligé de descendre et de marcher le long du pont » go to town, I was obliged to dismount and walk along the bridge
    Alexander Drummond, Travel throught different cities of Germany, Italy, Greece and Several Parts of Asia, as far as the Banks of the Euphrates, in a Series of Letters , Londres, Strahan, 1754, p.138 Alexander Drummond, Travel Thought different cities of Germany, Italy, Greece and Several Parts of Asia, as far as the Banks of the Euphrates, in a Series of Letters, London, Strahan, 1754, p.138

    On retrouve ces mêmes conditions dans tous les textes juridiques concernant les dhimmis. These same conditions in all legal texts concerning the dhimmis. Vers 1772, le cheikh al-Aldawi postulait dans sa fatwa Around 1772, Sheikh al-Aldawi postulated in his fatwa

    ” Il ne convient pas, de l’avis de plusieurs ulémas, et de tous même , en “It is not the opinion of several scholars, and all even in
    général, que les zimmis se placent sur un pied d’égalité avec les ulémas, les Generally, that Zimmer put on an equal footing with the scholars, the
    émirs et les chérifs quant aux vêtements et aux montures. Emirs and sheriffs as clothing and horses. Ils ne peuvent monter They can climb
    ni chevaux, ni mules, ni ânes de prix ; ils ne peuvent se servir de bâts de neither horses nor mules, nor donkeys price they can not use saddles
    valeur, et les princes et les chefs de l’Etat, doivent, non seulement leur en value, and the princes and heads of state, must not only them
    interdire l’usage ; mais ils sont obligés même de les châtier et de les ramener prohibit the use, but they are even obliged to punish them and bring
    à un état d’avilissement et d’abjection[…]on ne leur permettra pas d’élever la a state of debasement and abjection […] we will not allow them to raise
    voix en présence des musulmans, ni d’avoir des domestiques qui les suivent, et voice in the presence of Muslims, nor to have servants who follow them, and
    encore moins qui leur fassent faire place dans le chemin. still less do they make room in the path. On ne leur laissera We shall leave them
    pas porter des habits d’une étoffe fine, mais, au contraire, ils revêtiront des not wear clothes of fine cloth, but instead, they will be of the
    vêtements grossiers et communs ; on ne leur petmettra pas de donner à leurs Clothing coarse and common, they are only petmettra not give their
    maisons plus de hauteurs qu’à celles des musulmans ; il ne leur sera pas permis houses more heights than those of Muslims, he will not permit their
    non plus de les décorer à l’extérieur. not to decorate outside. C’est un devoir pour les princes It is a duty for princes
    musulmans, à qui Dieu a donné l’autorité, de leur interdire toute ces choses et Muslims, whom God has given the authority to prohibit them all these things and
    de les punir et des les châtier en cas de contravention » punish them and punish them in case of contravention ”
    Al-Adawi « Fetoua »[1772] ; Réponse à une question » tr. Al-Adawi “fetouas” [1772] Response to question “tr. de l’arabe par [François-Alphonse]Belin, 1852 pp.108-109 from Arabic by [François-Alphonse] Belin, 1852 pp.108-109

    En 1793, Al-Damanhûri, juriste égyptien, résume la manière dont les dhimmis doivent se déplacer. In 1793, Al-Damanhur, Egyptian lawyer, summarizes how the dhimmi must travel.

    « Ni juif ni Chrétien n’a le droit de monter à cheval avec ou sans selle. “Neither Jew nor Christian has the right to ride with or without saddle.
    Ils peuvent monter sur âne avec un bât[…] S’ils passent près d’un groupe de They can ride on donkey with a pack […] If they pass near a group of
    Musulmans, ils doivent mettre pied à terre et ne peuvent monter[un âne] qu’en Muslims, they must dismount and can not get [a donkey] that
    cas d’urgence, maladie ou départ pour la campagne et leur chemin doit être rendu emergency, illness or departure for the campaign and path must be made
    étroit » narrow ”
    Al-Damanhûri, Iqamaat al Hujja al-bahira ala hadm kana’is Misr wa-l-Qahira [1739] Al-Damanhur, Iqamaat al Hujja bahira ala al-HADM kana’is Misr wa-l-Qahira [1739]

    Voici comment un voyageur danois décrit cette situation en 1761 : Here’s how a Danish traveler described this situation in 1761:

    « Au Caire il n’est point permis aux chrétiens et aux Juifs d’aller à cheval “In Cairo there is no opportunity for Christians and Jews to ride
    : ils n’osent monter des ânes, et ils sont obligés même de descendre de cette They dare mount donkeys, and even they are forced to get out of this
    monture, à la rencontre du moindre seigneur égyptien. frame to meet the lesser Egyptian lord. Ces seigneurs paroissent These gentlemen appear
    toujours à cheval, précédés d’un domestique insolent et armé d’un gros baton, always on horseback, preceded by an insolent servant and carrying a big stick,
    qui averti ceux qui sont montés sur des ânes, de donner au seigneur les marques warned that those who are mounted on donkeys, to give the Lord marks
    dues de respect, en leur criant, enfil [enzel], descends. due respect, crying out, put [Enzel] down. Si l’infidèle n’obéit If the infidel obeys
    pas sur le champ, il y est forcé à coups de bâton. not on the field, he is forced to blows. Un marchand françois fut Francis was a merchant
    estropié en pareille occasion ; on insulta aussi notre médecin pour n’avoir crippled in such occasion we also insulted our doctor to have
    sauté assez lestement de son âne. jumped quite briskly from his ass. Par cette raison, un Européen ne peut gueres For this reason, a European can hardly
    se promener dans les rues, sans avoir un homme qui connoisse tous ces seigneurs, walk the streets without a man who know her all these gentlemen,
    et qui les lui montre à tems. and the time to show him. Au commencement, en passant par le Caire, je me In the beginning, passing through Cairo, I
    faisais précéder par mon janissaire et suivre par mon domestique, tous deux was preceded by my Janissary and followed by my servant, both
    montés comme moi, sur des ânes. as I mounted on donkeys. Mais essuyant l’humiliation de voir ces deux But wiping the humiliation of seeing these two
    jeunes musulmans rester sur leurs montures, pendant que j’étois forcé d’en Young Muslims stay on their horses, while I was forced to
    descendre, je prile parti de marcher à pied . down, I prile party to walk.

    Il est vrai qu’on It is true that
    pousse en Egypte plus loin que dans aucun pays de l’orient ces distinctions Egypt pushes further than any country in the east of these distinctions
    ordinaires, envers les mahométans et ceux qui professent une autre religion. ordinary against Mohammedans and those who profess another religion. Les The
    chrétiens et les juifs doivent mettre pied à terre devant d’autres maison du Christians and Jews must dismount before other house
    grand Kadi ; devant plus d’une vingtaine d’autres maisons, où les magistrats
    rendent la justice ; devant la porte des janissaires, et devant plusieurs render justice to the door of the Janissaries, and at a number
    mosquées. mosques. Il ne leur est pas seulement permis de passer à pied à côté de It is not their only allowed to go on foot to side
    quelques mosquées, réputées pour leur sainteté ; ni par le quartier El-Karafe, some mosques, known for their holiness, nor by the El-Karafi,
    où ils sont obligés de faire un détour pour éviter ces endroits, dont le sol where they are forced to detour to avoid those places where the soil
    même est sacré aux yeux du peuple, qui ne souffre pas qu’il soit profané par des itself is sacred in the eyes of people who do not suffer it to be profaned by
    pieds infidèles » feet infidels ”

    Niebhur (Karsten) Voyage de Mr Niebuhr en Arabie et en d’autres pays de L’Orient, avec l’extrait de sa description de l’Arabie et des observations de Mr Forskal , Suisse, Les librairies Associés,1780 Volume I pp 80-81 Niebuhr (Karsten) Travel of Mr. Niebuhr Arabia and other countries of the East, with extract from his description of Arabia and the comments of Mr Forskal, Switzerland, Bookstores Associates, 1780 Volume I, pp 80 -81

    Et un voyageur anglais visitant la Palestine en 1816 : And an English traveler visiting Palestine in 1816:

    « Toute notre route de Nazareth à Sook-el-Khan avait été plus ou moins “Our entire route from Nazareth to Sook-el-Khan had been more or less
    raboteuse et vallonnée, mais, en quittant ce lieu, nous arrivâmes dans une rugged and hilly, but in leaving this place, we came to a
    plaine fertile. fertile plain. Le long de notre chemin en cet endroit, nous rencontrâmes un Along our way there, we met a
    groupe de Juifs sur des ânes, allant de Tibériade au marché public, et comme ils group of Jews on donkeys, from Tiberias to the public market, and as they
    me prirent pour un Musulman à cause de ma robe turque et de mon turban blanc, took me for a Muslim because of my dress and my turkish white turban,
    tous descendirent de leurs montures et passèrent près de nous à pied. all descended from their frames and passed us on foot. Ces These
    persécutés sont tenus en tel mépris ici qu’il leur est interdit de rester montés persecuted are held in such contempt by which they are forbidden to remain mounted
    devant un Musulman, alors qu’on accepte que les Chrétiens restent sur leurs before a Muslim, then we accept that Christians are on their
    mules et leurs ânes, quoiqu’ils ne puissent monter à cheval sans la stricte mules and donkeys, though they can ride without strict
    permission du Pacha » permission of Pacha ”

    James Silk Buckingham, Travels in Palestine throught the Countries of Bashan and Gilead, East of the river Jordan, including a visit to the cities of Geraza and Gamala in the Decapolis , Londres, Longman, 1821, p.457 James Silk Buckingham, Travels in Palestine thought the Countries of Bashan and Gilead, East of the River Jordan, including a visit to the cities of Geraz Gamala and in the Decapolis, London, Longman, 1821, p.457
    Publié par Ibn al rawandi à 9:03 AM Published by Ibn al Rawanda at 9:03 AM

  17. Dear Joe: Here is what I meant- Dr. Cothrans analysis of genetic material from Blue Star arabians here in the U.S. did not find genetic markers consistent with Akhal Teke horses. This can only mean that there was no Turkoman blood in the Blue Stars. However we do know according to the Akhal Teke website that some lines of arabs do indeed have Akhal Teke genetic markers. I for one would be inclined to think that the Polish lines, and some others from Eastern Europe would be the most suspect, simply because we do know that they did use ,” Oriental,” stallions, and mares that had been topcrossed with desertbred sires. This really is juris stasis- it is known, and has been scientifically confirmed.
    An even more interesting question is how much scrutiny can the General List Arabians take. How much outsourced blood have show system and race breeders been sneaking into their horses to get their 15.3 to 16.1 hand horses. How about a genetic test of the U.S. nationals winner? After all the trend in U.S. show horses has been toward horses with weaker couplings, longer stilt like legs, and longer necks- resembling Saddlebreds, which do look a great deal like an Akhal Teke.
    Best Wishes
    Bruce Peek

  18. Dear Bruce
    you wrote,I quote
    “How much outsourced blood have show system and race breeders been sneaking into their horses to get their 15.3 to 16.1 hand horses”
    At the Syrian National Goverment Stud there is an Asil Kuheilan el Rabda stallion named “Shamel” (Basel x Shahnaz) measuring 1.64m .I know ,because when I take one mare to be mated by Shamel we measure him.
    The question is :when a bedouin had a 1.60m mare does he sale her?
    2 answers :or the mare is not pure and he sale her or the mare is pure and it is very difficult to him to sale her because in that case he must have had so many partners in her that selling her was very very difficult.

  19. I would certainly like to see a lot more information about and peer review of any genetic work that says “these are breed markers for this breed.” Where genetic data is carried forward from thousands of years ago, to separate modern breeds on a few markers seems simplistic to me. I am not educated in genetics, but I just want to slow us down. In My Opinion.

  20. I think one of the things that Dr. Cothran discovered in his genetic work with the Blue Star horses years ago (I believe most of the samples were Sa’ud desertbred progeny) was that there are very few markers in these horses. All other `Arabs` had their markers but they did not have the many many markers represented in the other `Arabs` compared. There can be at least a couple of reasons for this…. and probably more possibilities than I could imagine with my small knowledge of genetics.

    There are samples supplied to Dr. Cothran from all over the world. He never really produced a scientific article on the earlier research, and I don’t think there is anything to conclude about what they are doing right now… we have to wait for the conclusions to be drawn by the scientists. However, I hope there is going to be some very interesting information revealed about certain successful `racing` Arab lines.

  21. Thank you Bruce for the nice comment on AAS AL SAKB+/ riding in the mare pasture. I shared that with my son (the rider/ owner). He dearly loves that horse. Most of our foals in 2011 will be his; they have such pleasant dispositions…. he has produced too may colts for us already. We need his fillies.

  22. No Bruce, I would like to say only , our beloved Arabian horse was very important in the purification of the Turcoman breed. Nadir Shah was not the only – but He used them particularly- who bought the most beautiful Arabian horses for his breeding work…and naturally imported these horses into Persia.
    We can read about it in Karl Wilhelm Ammon’s book,( “Pferdezucht der Araber”, Riegel und Wiesner,1834)and about the method, why used the persian breeders Arabian stallions in every third or fourth generations, too.

  23. Dear Bruce

    ” The Arabian Thoroughbred has been found to be a hybrid of Caspian and Turkoman.”,
    I might accept the presence of Turkmen horses in any Arab horse Asil or not for the reasons I explained above. But where Dr Cothran found the Caspian horse blood?

    Allow me to quote Major General Tweedie:
    “One of the good deeds of Abbas I Shah of Persia whose dominions at his death (1628) stretched from the Tigris to the Indus,was to collect and distribute a large numbers of Arabian mares and stallions….
    We have heard it stated by those who know “Turkmenia”that the best variety of the Turkmani horse,that known in Central Asia as the Argamak essentially is a modified Arabian.”
    More
    “A son of the historical Amir Dost Muhammad Khan of Cabul,resided till he died at Baghdad.He often told us that,according to his experience ,the Argamak is even a better traveler and campaigner than the Arabian”
    (The Arabian at home)pages 273/274
    I dont want to argue about the qualities of the Argamak horse,as I never saw one,but one cannot ignore such a statement,who may help us to understand why a Bedouin who just lost his war mare may have bought an Argamak mare from a traveller.Thus,her descendants sold to a naive European could explain the Turkmen blood.

  24. I’m sure the Argamak partbreds were at least one of the sources of AT blood showing up. Also of course as Edouard has recently mentioned there were most likely numerous Hajin, and Kadisch horses pawned off on naive europeans. And of course as you mentioned,” selling to a Christian European who is going to take the horse away, in that case my friend they are capable to lie on their mother origin.” Well what Dr. Cothrans research shows is that in some cases the Bedouins outsmarted themselves.
    As for the Caspian blood, we do know that Arabians, Akhal Tekes, and Caspians all descend from the type 4 proto hotblood which evolved after the last ice age in the near east, and west central asia. And as Cothrans says its difficult to say exactly when genetic markers were added to a gene pool. But in the case of the Akhal Teke we do know precisely when their Toroughbred genes showed up due to the mismanagement of the breed by the Communists at Tersk in the days of the old Soviet Union.
    Best wishes
    Bruce Peek

  25. The Mu’niqi Type: Mu’niqi derives from the Arabian terms mi’niq or ma’naq for “long neck”. Here, long and angular body lines are the distinguishing mark. Mu’niqis are long and narrow with a long neck, a long and not always strongly coupled back, long limbs and a comparatively long and narrow, sometimes coarse head without any dish and with smaller eyes set higher in the forehead. Their withers are set higher, the root of the tail lower and the croup is sloping more. A long shoulder, a long humerus, a short cannon bone and onot overly strongly angled hind legs also belong to this type. As a reason for the development of this type, Raswan gives the explanation that from about 1630 on, some of the nomadic Bedouin tribes from the middle and the south of Arabia relocated their migrations into the areas to the west of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, getting into contact with the Turkomans living there. They had their mares covered with Turkmen stallions: the resulting horse were Arabians with a “racing horse conformation” who were only marginally similar to the “classical types”.

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