The Arabian Horses of Turkey
I am really intrigued by the Arabian horses of Turkey, for two reasons.
First, as a student of Middle Eastern history, I am deeply aware that the area composed of the modern states of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and alternativelly known as Bilad al-Sham, Greater Syria, or the Levant (depending on who you talk to), was governed out of two cities during most of the last thousand years: Cairo and Istanbul.
Both the Ayubid (1171- 1250) and the Mameluk Sultanates (1250-1516) ruled over this area from the city of Cairo, while the Ottoman Empire’s domination of the same area out of Istanbul lasted from 1516 until 1918. The Ottoman Viceroy of Egypt Mohammad Ali Pasha and his son Ibrahim Pasha also ruled the area from Cairo for a brief period (1832-1840), when they openly challenged the Ottomans’ authority. More recently, Syria and Egypt were also briefly united in one country from 1958 to 1961.
If Cairo and Istanbul were the centers of power and prestige, then desert-bred Arabian horses, which are themselves major objects of power and prestige, must have flocked to Cairo and Istanbul in large numbers over this entire period. They were either obtained as gifts, purchases for cavalry remounts or war trophies. While most everybody knows about the fabled Arabian horse collections of Ottoman Viceroy of Egypt Muhammad Ali the Great, his son Ibrahim Pasha and especially his grandson Abbas Pasha I, much less is known about the Arabian horses of the Ottoman Sultans in Istanbul. They must have been equally good.
When the Ottoman empire came to an end in 1923 in the aftermath of World War One, at least eight of the Sultan’s horses were incorporated into the new Turkish Republic’s Arabian horse breeding program. They were referred to as being from the “Palace”. This is not unlike the Arabians of Abbas Pasha of Egypt forming the historical foundation of Egypt’s EAO breeding program.
The second reason why I am intrigued by these Turkish Arabians is that Krush Halba (Saqlawi Sh’aifi x Kuhaylat Krush), the foundation stallion of the Arabian horses breeding program of my home country — Lebanon — was sold to the Turkish Government for 200 gold pounds in the early 1930s, and fhas ounded a major sire line that still exists there.
Anyway, I am really intrigued by these horses, and I want to learn more about them. The excellent WAHO Investigation and Inspection Report on the Turkish Arabian Stud Book of April 1997, to which Basil Jadaan and Kees Mol contributed, is a good place to start.
Below is a photo of one of these Turkish Arabian stallions, Canberk (Tufan x Meliketulcemal). He was born in 1957.
Compare with the two photos of the desert-bred Davenport stallion *Hamrah, below.
The quality of the horses existing at the Sutan’s stables had nothing to do with the Abbas pasha horses,they were superiors in all the ways .
Abbas was a Pasha while he was the “Sultan” ,he was the spiritual head of the Moslem word ,The “Keeper of Mecca and Medina ” the two holy cities (today it is the king of Saudi Arabia).
the Sultan Stables existed troughout the Empire ,Bedouins used to send him la “Creme de la creme” of their horses as gifts.
His power was immense,for the Us readers ,remember the power of Davenport’s “irade”.
Evrything in the Empire had his name.”The Hamidie hippodrome society” headed by my great- grand father was named after him.Abdul Hamid =(hamidie) as was the great Damascus market souk Al Hamidie.
Comparing the Abbas Pasha horses to the Sultan horses is like comparing the EAO today stud to the stud of a small “Straight Egyptian” breeder.
As soon I’m back in Beirut I will scan and send to Edouard some photos of modern Turkish taken from the Turkish stud book.
Thanks for opening this thread. Very provocative — which I had more photos of the local asils (non-WAHO) still in Israel, still being bred by a handful of locals.
Canberk is absolutely beautiful.
I find the Turkish breeding very intriguing as well. There was an excellent article in AHW after the WAHO conference in Turkey by Emma Maxwell, I remember specifically her comment that she was unable to keep up with the Turkish Arabians trotting and she was probably the world fastest handler (wasn’t she on the British olympic team as a sprinter once?)
Besides the close desert source, the Turcs have the world’s richest racing scene (horses as well as purse) I believe
I understand there are several state studs and although there is a “pure bred” program with French Russian, and Polish stallion, for the moment it is still separated from the Turkish program.
There are interesting websites to be found I’m sure if you can google in Turkish – I found some years ago this site http://www.tjk.org/Content/Aygirlar/Aygirlar.aspx with pictures of stallions (just on the horse’s name above right to select another stallion, sile are simply stunning)
You also need to select the breed on the right, otherwise you start with the English thoroughbreds
Patrick is right.
The Arab racing scene in Turkey is the richest in the world. There are five race meetings weekly in various places in Turkey ,Istambul,Ankara,Izmir and Adana ,all transmited in live TV with more than 3500 betting shops.
In each meeting there are at least 3 Arab races. last year the betting in Turkey was more than 1 billion UsDollars.
the money purse is huge and the ratio is :Your horse win one race a year and he pays for all his year expenses,I beleive it is with Hong Kong the highest in the world.
The Arb breeding is mainly a goverment stud business ,the most succesful stud being the Karacabey state stud,horses are sold in auction and their price is high due to huge purse.
Foreign horses can participated in arab races 4 times a year ,in international races only.the Turks are protecting their national horses with very strict regulations
I tried to send few of my mares from Syria to a friend stud in Turkey,I could’nt, there is strict regulations for the entrance of mares :they must be winner of Group races or having a product winning of a Group race.
Reading the Stud book one can notice the presence of few foreign stallions and mares.
As for French Arab stallions ,they are out of fashion,today the trend is for 2 Saudi “Arab”? stallions one in Qatar “Amer”, and “Tuwaik” in Prince Khaled dream farm “Al khalediah” near Ryadh.
Shalom Tzviah,
I would be very interested in information about asil horses in Israel. Not only photos but also background information. Thank You in advance
Matthias
Dear Joe Achcar,
Firstly I would like to congratulate the creator of this bolg and their active members who give often very interesting information and provocative comments pertaining to the burning subject of Arabian horses. However , so active members sometimes really go overboard making statements unfortunately in my humble opinion not based on facts or figures but desert mirages and go way overboard. I have two observations concerning your recent text:
a. I do not know what Turkish Stud Book you have consulted. At least in the official copy that I have there is not even one French stallions or dames that have ever been used in breeding in this wonderful country with a great tradition of purity of this race of horses. French horses have never been admitted to be used in Turkey.
b. There is no wish whatsoever as to the usage of the Amer and Tiwaiq as stallions in Turkey. The TJC does not allow the usage of above-mentioned stallions in local breeding.
The offsprings of Amer and Tiwaiq appear only in the couple of open international PA (IFAHR accredited) races but they are specially flown in for the specific occasion from France, UK, and UAE etc. These horses are bred and owned by not by Turks but by other nationals. The interesting part is that in those PA races the Turkish bred, and owned horses sometimes win against the Amers’, the Tiwaiqs’ or the French blood horses. One of them last year was the Turkish bred owned trained and ridden wonderful stallion called Turbo of ” pure Turkish blood”, I would highly recommend you talk to the members of the TJK on the above mentioned comments of my point (a) and (b) with the President of TJC Mr. Cihat Guruz. His phone and his e-mail you can obtain form their web site.
Best to you Longin
interesting, what exactly is the objection to amer and full brother tiwaiqs offspring, and french bloodlines, in turkey
Dear Longin
It seems that you did not read very well my writing
First of all I never wrote that Turkish Arab horse breeders have ever us French horses(please read again)
On the other hand there is Us,Polish and Russian stallions and mares in the Turkish Stud book.
Pity that I left it in my Damascus farm (I’m for the time being in Beirut)so I could have mentioned there names
–I wrote”Foreign horses can participated in arab races 4 times a year ,in international races only.the Turks are protecting their national horses with very strict regulations” I never mentioned that the Turkish breeder wants to use “Amer ‘or “Tiwaik”
As for “Turbo”(Rikardox Gulbanaz) i saw him winning last year the malazgirt trophy it was a shame that he does not run in the world championship that year in France.
As for this year malazgirt trophy; the winner was General(Amer) in 1.44.62 for the 1600m as for the first Turkish horse Mertkal he was placed fourth in 1.48.20 (IFHAR web site) and the best Turkish horse Kafkasli was fifth in 1.48.93.
4 seconds in a 1600m race is really too much .it means 24m more or less.
As for Mr. Cihat Guruz I just met him at the IFHAR executive board in Paris October the third in Longchamp together with Mr Chaoui the Syrian executive IFHAR board member.
In 2009 Mr Guruz informed me in our meeting at our stables in Damascus about the TJK conditions in order to bring my Syrian mares to Turkey.
More over it is the ” Central Veterinary Control and Research Institute” .Ankara
Director.Dr. Nahit Yazicioglu.
ehh.o@tr.net
who perform monthly the anti-doping test for our Syrian races.
Anyway thank you for your concern,but as you may see I dont really need any introduction to the TJK.
Best regards
Joe Achcar
Dear Paul Brown
On French horses origin please go to Edouard’s “Ne montez pas sur vos grands chevaux” under the “10 most dicussed entries”
‘Amer” and “Tiwaik” are saudi horses .Amer has a pedigree (Wafix Bushra) but looking for them in the Saudi “Dirab”Vol I: you will never find them ,you will never find none of their pedigree recorded ancestors,
In tuesday 11 september 2001 Katrina Murray(waho executive secretary) answering my questions about Amer sent a mail stating: below quoting Mrs Murray email:
Quote “Amer was born in KSA and gifted by Prince Sultan al Saud to the Emir of Qatar before the publication of their first Stud book.After a lengthy investigation some years later he was approved and registered in the Qatar Stud book.
His sire and dam’s are known but as these horses were not in the first Saudi Stud Book their names do not appear on Amer’s own pedigree in the Qatar stud book,according to Waho requirements.
Amer’s sire (on his recorded pedigree certified by the Saudi authorities) is a stallion called Wafi by Shabbab of the Suwaiti strain,out of Sarhah of the Suwaitieh strain).
His dam is Bushra by Lahomm of the Hamdani strain out of Rhifah,of the Hamdanieh strain)” end of Mrs Murray quoting.
13 Sept. I replied:
Amer :sire,dam,great sire,great dam on both sides does not appear on “al Dirab” stud book .Amer has no brother,no sisters not an aunt ,not even a cousin.
Despite this fact the Qatar Arab horse registry “after lenghty investigations” registered the horse.
Question:
Who made the “Lenghty investigations” Waho ,Qatar or the Saudis?
Who accepted the horse the Saudis or the Qataris or both? If the horse is registered in the Saudi stud book please give us is registration number.
I never received an answer…
Please note that Prince Sultan is the Kingdom minister of Defense and Heir of the throne and that the owner of the horse is the Emir of Qatar.
As for “Tiwaik” there is no recorded pedigree of the horse
on the”al Khalediah farms”(owner ,breeder) website .
I forgot to mention :
In my letter to Mrs Murray I also asked
“we do have two pure bred Arab horses non-registered in our lebanese stud book Vol I.These two horses were sold to a Syrian owner.
On the basis of a “recorded pedigree certified by the Lebanese authorities” and after “lenghty investigations” can these horses be registered in both the Lebanese and Syrian Stud Books”?
moreover there is no Arab horses races in the beautiful ‘Al Janadria” race track near Ryadh,only thouroughbred races.It is said that the King forbids Arab races because he is not sure of the purity of Arab horses competing in races.
Hi Joe,
Most grateful of you to answer my opinions. I do not want to split hairs with you. Yes I had the honour to be with the top members of TJC in Paris like you next to the Syrian and Iraqui representatives. I am very sorry we missed each other just to take a moment to know each other better. The saddling yard on the day of the L’Arc is very crouded and I regret imensly not to at least shake the hand of such a fine and knowlegable person as to the Arab horses and exchange some fundamental on the Arabian racehorses from Turkey. Maybe another time. With big regret, best to you, Longin
Dear Longin
Thank you for your kindness. we are neighbours and I have the greatest respect fot the Turkish people and ..horses.After all “Baba” Krush was bought in Lebanon!!
please write to: joeachcar@yahoo.fr
hello, very interesting to read about the turkish arab horses! but i keep wondering, can we say that they are asil? as far as i found out is there a lot of crossbreeding with polish horses. can we stil state that they are asil lines?
Thanks!
Then you saw the Turkish Online Studbook Probably never, right?
Otherwise you would not write something.
Very few Asil lines were mixed with Polish stallions.
Mostly of the Pure Turkish are Asil…
Look the Stallion…
http://www.tigem.gov.tr/icerik.asp?is=271q13596q10q1hdq10q1136q1269q1153
and this is the Link from the Studbook
http://new.ykk.gov.tr/ykkeng/Index.aspx#
My suggestion to the definition of PT, “Pure Turkish” Arab Horse:
The definition: Any purebred Arabian horse which traces back in all of his pedigree lines to a horse registered in the WAHO Turkish Stud Book Volume 1 can be considered as PT Horse.
This means that the D.B. Lines and the lines of the non-asil WAHO recognized Arabs.The line of the Turkish foundation horses are Asil
and a few non-asil branches, today.
A very rare Saqlawiyah Jidraniyah tribe, there are today still alive in Turkey,represented by the family of “Cahide”.
The Emir Muhammad ‘Ibn Ahmad ‘Ibn Rashid, bred Saqlawiyah Arjabi mares,the offspring were called in Istanbul as Seklaviye Cedraniye Bin Re?id (Saqlawiyah Jidraniyah Ibn Rashid).
One of these mares came to Istanbul as a gift to Sultan Abdülhamid II.
Also the Blunt’s visited in 1893 the Imperial Stables, in this Time,there were about 1,700 Purebred Arabian horses.
Lady Anne saw a world-class Arabian mare, a “Saglawiyah”, named Asshab by Emir Muhammad ‘Ibn Ahmad ‘Ibn Rashid.
She said about her: >>a perfectly wonderful Gray mare, such lovely like a Gazelle from Ali Pasha Sheriff<<.
I’ve been studying for several months, the Turkish Studbook.
I’ve noticed that many of the imported horses from Iraq, no substrain.
Just as Kuhaylan, Ubayan, Mu’niqi, Saqlawi etc. .. listed.
Some pedigrees are misspelled, by the imports from Germany and the U.S. is not the complete pedigrees.
After the establishment of Turkey as an independent nation, the Ottoman Sultan’s bred horses they at the Karacabey and Sultansuyu Stud.
Karacabey Stud now breeds today the Asil Arabian, Haflinger, and half-bred Halfinger.
The Appearance of the Pure Turkish Arabian (Türk Arap ati) from the Karacabey Stud, is a very sound breed with good conformation, showing Arabian influence but with more body mass and were chestnut, gray, bay, or black.
It is a orintal Race and Riding horse,with a good topline,dry head and short,forehead is broad and a narrow nose.
The neck is of good medium length,and the back is straight and ends in a sloping croup.
His hull has a lot of deep chest (172cm) and well sprung ribs.
The legs are strong, dry and well-formed.
The tube circumference is about 19.4 cm.,and approach is growing inches a Height of around 152 cm.
Occur before all the basic colors, but very often are Gray and Chestnut’s.
They have Beautiful long hair.
A typical feature is a longitudinal fold on the tongue, does it look as if it were divided.
They had pronounced withers, a wide, deep chest, sloping shoulders, a straight back, and a rounded, muscular croup.
Their legs were strong and solid, with good joints and bone structure and well formed, tough hooves.
The breed was said to be the only Turkish breed that displayed uniformity of type and consistent transmission of breed characteristics.
They were developed by crossing the Desert Breeds strain of Arabians bred specifically for racing with the native Turkish-Arabian from the former Ottoman Royal Stable’s Breeds.
Turkey has one of the meticulously conducted stud books in the world.
The breed is still heavily dominated by desert lines, although there are also other lines.
Crabbet, Spanish, Egyptian and Russian horses are almost unknown, but Poles are very popular.
Some Polish Arabian Horses were imported from the Polish Stat Stud Farm “Janow Podlaski”.
Today, the Turkish state studs includes one of the largest collection of authentic asil Arabian Horses, they are 7 stallion and 37 mare lines.
Sire families:
Al Kurush/Baba Kurus (Küheylan Kurus)
Berk/Avnullah Nesvan (Küheylan Berk)
Hedban (Küheylan)
Hilalüzzaman (Übeyyan)
Kurush Satra (Küheylan Kurus)
Sa’d/Veliyüllaht (Küheylan Sa’d)
Seklavi (Seklavi Cedrani Nasiri)
Dam families:
Acbe (Küheylet’ül Sahara)
Almimruhiye (Küheylet’ül Memruhiye)
Alseklavi (Seklaviye Cedraniye)
Matra (Manekiye)
Seyyare (Seklaviye)
Bagdat Gülü (Seklaviye Cedraniye)
Mebruke (Seklaviye Hayriye)
Süheybi (Manekiye Sübeyhi)
Behre (Küheyle)
Meliketülcemal (Küheylet’ül Acuz)
Sahide (Hamdaniye Simriye)
Cahide (Seklaviye Cedraniye Ibn Rashid)
Mencule (Küheyle)
Serzetülhavva (Hamdaniye Ibn Gurap)
Fazila (Küheylet’ül Cilfe)
Mesrure (Küheylet’ül Acuz)
Siha (Kübeyshe el Umayr)
Gufre (Küheylet’ül Cilfe)
Nazima (Küheyle)
Tulfetennur (Manekiye)
Hamde (Küheylet’ül Acuz)
Neame (Dahman’ül Umm Amr)
Zafire (Küheyle)
Kara inci (Manekiye)
Necme (Manekiye Sübeyhi )
Zahide (Manekiye)
Kemiyetülirak (Seklaviye)
Oyuncu (Hamdaniye)
Zehra (Manekiye)
Kirsemsa (Übeyye)
Rode (Manekiye Sübeyhi)
Mahide (Seklaviye Cedraniye)
Sabika (Küheylet’ül Cilfe)
Mahsuse (Manekiye)
Sahra (Manekiye)
Malike (Übeyye)
Sapha (Seklaviye Cedraniye)
One of the treasures that can come up with the Turkish Arabian horse breeding,are the three desert mare’s,Mahsuse,Cahide and Mesrure from the Dolmabahce palace.
Once owned by the last Sultan Mehmed VI. (reigned 1918-1922) of the Ottoman Empire.
Private Breeders Tailefemale line:
Halepgüzeli (Küheylet Ümmü Cenup)
Cireyban (Küheylet’ül Cireyban)
Nafia (Seklaviye) Extinct in 2004
Mihre (Übeyye) Extinct in 2008
Private Breeders Tailefemale line:
Halepgüzeli (Küheylet Ümmü Cenup)
Cireyban (Küheylet’ül Cireyban)
Nafia (Seklaviye) Tailfemale Extinct in 2004
Mihre (Übeyye) Tailefemale Extinct in 2008
Leyla.75 (Seklaviye)
Yildiz.16 (Hamdaniye Budak)
Pakize (Seklaviye)
Leyla (Hamdaniye Budak)
Aynur (Küheyle Cenup)
Güvercin (Manekiye Sellati)
Noma (Küheylet’ül Cietni)
Sabuh (Hamdaniye)
Cicek (Seklaviye Cedraniye)
Interesting, shame that we know so little about these breeding programs.
Unfortunately
I do not know why.
Even Judith Forbis, wrote a book about the Turkish Arabian horse breeding.
Also,we remembered a Turkish commission that travelled to Syria,Libanon and Iraq from October 1933 to February 1934. Nurettin Bey and E. Selahattin had been sent to search for first class Arabian stallions for the Turkish Arabian studs, especially Karacabey. They purchased a total of 20 Arabian horses, 14 stallions and 6 mares. They published a fascinating account of their travels, the purchase of the horses ad their experiences with the breeding and management of horses in Arabia (Nurettin Aral, and Selahattin E.,,,Arabian Breeding Today”,Ankara 1935), which has unfortunately been largely ignored in the West.
Of the Arabian horses in the area of Hama, they wrote:”There are many wealthy men around Hama who invest their entire fortune in the breeding of horses and who own precious´mares. These horses fetch incredible prices, although the prices have gone down considerably through the general depression. Although their refinement is especially evident, we could not bring ourselves to make any purchases. If as much attention was paid to conformation and genetic soundness as to refinement and pedigree, the district of Hama could be the centre of the best Arabian breeding. Unfortunately, the emphasis is fanatically on type. The best mares, which are perfect representatives of Arabian type, usually have fault legs, low backs, short and sloping croups, curbs and bone spavins – in other words, faults which reduce an animal’s value for breeding considerably.”
With the founding of the Republic of Turkey in 1923, new national stud farms were established, including Karacabey, Anadolu and Sultansuyu, the former farm of Sultan Ahmed. A small number of foundation horses for these studs came from the stables of the last Caliph Abdülmecid II, and there were horses that had been bought from 1925 to 1936 in the region of Urfa in eastern Turkey and Arab countries (Syria, Lebanon and Iraq) .
Since the establishment of the National Stud, the breeding of horses in Turkey is well documented. Today, there are also many private stables, horse sale, mainly in Turkey for the very popular racing.
The New Non Asil Sire line’s in the Turkish Breding today:
From Poland:
Batyskaf = Aral (New Name)
Druid = Bayraktar (New Name)
Emael = Batu (New Name)
From the USA:
Thunder Tiki = Tufan (New Name)
Tiki Tor Ku = Asgar (New Name)
Genuine Ruller = Akhun (New Name)
patrick, such a stallion as your “Kadir”…need the Turkish State Stud’s.
He is SE/Asil…and very typeful.
In 1940, the Society of the Turkish Arabian Horse Breeders was founded in Turkey. The first meetings started out with 42 members. Since these times, Turkey has been experiencing an increasing development in private Arabian breeding, making the Society proud of its 9182 members today. With loads of enthusiasm and effort, there were only performance-oriented breeders interested in Race and also in endurace riding, establishing
small to medium-size breeding stocks. On pastures covering up to 100 hectares, a whole number of private studs turns out Thouroughbred as well as Purebred Arabians. The Society as well as the state studs of Karacabey, Mahmudiye and Sultansuyu are busy supporting the private breeders in their establishing top quality, performance-oriented Race Arabian breeding stock. For example, they offer selected stallions, approved and well-krnown in bereeding besides having finished the stallion performance test in Race, to the smaller breeders at favourable rates. This is meant to prevent smaller studs from limiting themselves to a certain few stallions. It also serves to entice an extensive exchange of stallions on a national as well as on an international level, meanting the blood basis will kept as broad as possible.
Today, the Turkish state studs includes one of the largest collection of authentic asil Arabian Horses, they are 7 stallion and 37 mare lines.
Sire families:
Al Kurush (Küheylan Kurush)
Berk/Avnullah Nesvan (Küheylan Berk)
Hedban (Übeyyan)
Hilalüzzaman (Übeyyan)
Baba Kurush (Küheylan Kurush)
Sa’d/Veliyüllaht (Küheylan Sa’d)
Seklavi I. Gülap (Seklavi Ucrefi)
The stallion Linden Tree was not Barb.
This is false information. Why do people only write so much bullshit?.
Listen, please:
In the Imperial stables and stud farms of the Ottoman dynasty, there was no Barb’s.
We have Pure Arabian horses.
These came from the Bedouins and also from the stud Bialecerkiew from Poland.
Linden Tree was born in 1874, specifically bred by Sultan Abdulaziz I. and not of Abdülhamid II
Linden Tree was an Arabian stallion, on Hamdani and Kuhaylan inbred lines.
However, not Asil. He goes back to Polish lines.
Abdülhamid II’s reign, from 1876 only until 1909.
Also Abdühamid II was not the last sultan.
Mehmed VI, was the last sultan.
I think we all would like to see the documentation on Linden Tree!
can anyone tell me if turkish racehorses can be bought and exported to race abroad? i’d love to try a few out racing back in the uk
I want to buy a horse in South Turkey, does anyone know where?
I am writing my comment here because you mentioned Israel. I want everyone to know that in Israel there is a “treasure” of asil Arabian horses that belong to the beduin tribes of the southern desert (called the Negev). Many of these tribes have origins in Saudi Arabia and Jordan and own beautiful Arabians. With modernization, the tribes are giving up their traditional lifestyle and are settling in towns and their horses are slowly disappearing. In addition these horses have been kept pure by the beduins but are not registered in any official stud books, (although some have papers from Jordan)and therefore can not “compete” with the registered Arabians that have been imported to Israel and the other non Arab registered breeds. They are slowly disappearing. Once or twice a year one can find an add online for a beduin horse for sale. The strains that they mention are Kuhailan, Suwatieh and Kvishan (a local name as far as I know, Kvishan is for a stallion and Kavishi is for a mare).
I owned such a horse many years ago and can say that they are indeed rare,unique,very smart and loyal. I lived in the US many years and never saw Arabian horses like these, not even the Egyptian Arabians.
I would really want to see someone “save” these ancient Arabian strains and prevent their disappearance.
I was wondering if there is any way to add some pictures and links of beduin horses from the desert of southern Israel?
just email me at ealdahdah@hotmail.com and i will review them and upload them for you.
test
They have a new link up for the Turkish Arab racing sires http://www.tjk.org/EN/Yatistiricilik/Static/Page/Aygirlar
According to my research, the Turk Arap or Turkish Arab is NOT a purebred Arab, as it goes back to the Anatolian Native, hence the greater height & heavier build. The Anatolian Native (as well as the Turkish Anadolu) were influenced by the Arab, Turkoman, Persian, Mongolian, Karabakh, Kabardin, Deliboz, Akhal Teke. Some historians are calling this breed the ‘Turkish Horse’ instead of the Turkish Arab, due to its heritage, and to avoid confusing this breed with the purebred Arab of Turkey.
This Turk Arap / Turkish Arab is very popular as a race horse in Turkey.
The “longitudinal fold on the tongue, does it look as if it were divided” is a typical trait of the Deliboz breed.
Several countries have this “type” of Arabian horse. The Hungarian Shagya Arab is one of them. The Shagya Arab goes back to the Lipizzaner breed. The Shagya Arab was renamed “Shagya Arab” in 1980. Before that, the breed was just listed as “Arab.” Purebred Hungarian Arabs were listed as “Race Arabs.” There is also the North American Pintabian, which is based on the American Paint Horse (APHA). The APHAs were heavily crossed with Arab to produce the Pintabian. Plus, there is the French Anglo Arab. This breed (registered with the Selle Francais) is mainly an Anglo Arab now; however, the French Anglo Arab was based on the old Spanish horse / Andalusian.
Most of my research indicates the Turkish pure Arab was influential in breeding of Hungarian & Russian Arab lines.
Some more information can be found on this website. When you get there, page down for some useful references. http://www.lrgaf.org/articles/foundation-turks.htm
I imagine a great deal of research needs to be done to gain a greater understanding of exactly where purebred Turkish Arabians originate, and how this Arab type has influenced the other Arabians. Hopefully DNA will help with that.
I know this is an old post, but I felt additional information needed to be put out there.
This is the same point Judith Forbis made in Hoofbeats along the Tigris. The Turkish Arab is indeed a local arab-based breed, different from the purebred Arabian registered in the WAHO accepted studbook of the Republic of Turkey.
There is more than just Lipizzaner blood in the Shagya Arabian pedigrees when you trace them back to the early 19th century. They were founded on very mixed blood, and so you will also find Thoroughbred, Gidran, Nonius, Spanish, Trakehner, etc.
The Hungarian term for purebred Arabians was Arab Teliver. What are now called Shagyas used to be in Hungarian called Arab Fajta.
The equivalent German terms are Arab Vollblut (full blood) and Araber Rasse.
I’m not sure which Russian Arab lines you refer to, Kelly. Certainly the Russian Arabian as shown and promoted in the USA in the late 20th century was a very recent creation, dating back only to the 1930s when the Tersk Stud acquired foundation stock from France, Crabbet Stud in England, and finally from Poland. But there were many different breeding programs in pre-Communist Russia making varying use of Arabian blood.
I have to wonder about the arrogance with which some people simply say something. To think that the horses that the Turkish sultan and ruler collected in Turkey are worse than those that a Turkish pasha collected in Egypt is absolute nonsense. That must be obvious to everyone. It is probably envy and malicious slander. The fact is, that the Turkish Arabs go back completely to Bedouin breeding. And it can also be proven.