Photo of the day: Bint Nafaa, b. 1962
The gorgeous Bint Nafaa was born in Egypt in 1962, and bred by Ahmed Hamza’s Hamdan Stables, yet she does not have the “Straight Egyptian” label.
The Pyramid Society, who coined the “definition” of a Straight Egyptian and Egyptian breds, does not accept El Gadaa, Nafaa’s sire, as a Straight Egpytian.
El Gadaa was a racehorse, who stood at Hamdan stables for a while and was bred by Miqhim ibn Mahayd, the Shaykh of the Bedouin Fad’aan tribe. Egyptian records have him as being by El Sabaa, also a racehorse, out of a Ma’naghiyah of Ibn Mhayd.
Fine. But many questions remain unanswered. Did Miqhim race Arabian horses in Egypt? or did he sell the horse to a racehorse owner? did he own El Gadaa’s sire El Sabaa? where was El Gadaa bred, in Egypt, or in the desert?
I know Miqhim ibn Mahayd left Syria sometimes in the 1950s (will get back to you with the exact date) after a series of problems with the Syrian regime, and moved to Saudi Arabia, where he received royal treatment from the King – himself a fellow Anazeh tribesman, who incidentally bred Bint Nafaa’s dam Nafaa, a desertbred Kuhaylah (so marbat) by a ‘Ubayyan al-Suyayfi – a strain that branched off ‘Ubayyan al-Hunaydees. I know Miqhim kept a small herd of horses in Syria with the care of an agent.
One definitely needs to learn more about El Gadaa.. Meanwhile, check out this breeding program, which seeks to preserve the descendants of Nafaa through her other daughter Nadia and her granddaughter Serenity *Bint Nadia (by Sameh x Nadia by Ezzat).
Ibn Mhyad left in 1958 when Nasser changes the “Bedouin status “in Syria ie:they were exempted from enlistement in the army,their cars were allowed to circulate in the Basia without paying taxes ,a dispute between 2 tribesmen was solved by a bedouin court according to old rules…
We own a colt (Hamdani el Efri) from Anbargi breeding which great dam was Ibn Mhayd own mare ,he sold her to the Anbargi’s when he left,
I’m not sure that he left any horses to be raised in Syria with his “wakil” or agent.
Omar Anbargi could ask Saed Agha Yagan the well known breeder who’s farm is next to the Fadaan lands about this subject.
That must have happened before 1958, because the hujjah that Ibn Mhayd signed for the first Anbarji mare (the Hamdaniyah you are talking about) was dated from 1956, with Ibn Mhayd in Saudi Arabia..
Also, If I recall well Omar Anbarji told me the horses were left with Sulayman al-Issa from the clan of al-Beekat, who was acting as Miqhim’s “wakil”.. To be checked again.
Hi Edouard,
I have to presume that Wisteria still hasn’t had her baby yet. Am I correct?
Is there any chance you know Brian Bennett of Bentmoor Arabians here in Michigan? Just wondering…..
Jane Karr
Hi Edouard,
I too liked the pic of Bint Naf’aa in the Hamdan Stud book. There is a mare in Germany tracing to her in tail female, with the rest of the pedigree being Egyptian, and another mare with a Crabbet/English sire line tracing to this Bint Naf’aa female line. As I understand it, the Pyramid Society recognizes lines other wise eligible if they are also registerable in the U.S. by our registry. So if our registry does not recognize and register descendants El Ghadaa, the Pyramid Society can’t either. Same issue for descendants of Sharkasi. I don’t know what the Asil Club’s position is on this line, but the Egyptian/El Ghadaa mare in Germany is now 15 years old. Her name is Chira (GASB 14909). The Datasource shows no progeny yet, but they can be behind on foreign progeny sometimes.
It is interesting to note that hypothetically if El Ghadaa was proposed to Al Khamsa and accepted by them as a roster horse, and this German mare Chira that I mentioned above, had an otherwise eligible foal that was imported to the U.S., it would be Al Khamsa even if not registerable by AHA, because Al Khamsa does not require AHA registration.
I might add that thanks to *Serenity Bint Nadia, the Nafa’a line (without El Ghadaa) is doing okay in the U.S. with the dedication of Samantha at Blue Pyramid Arabians.
oops! I gave the wrong German registration number for Chira, it is GASB 15155. She is sire by Saymoon (Maymoon x Sayameh I by Anchor Hill Halim) and out of Cylia (Madkour I x Cleopatra, a daughter of Bint Nafa’a).
Also when replying to my comments refer to me as JoeF. This helps to eliminate confusing me with the senior honorable member here, Joe Achcar, who is far more knowledgeable. (I am just the junior).
Hi Jane, indeed Wisteria hasn’t delivered yet.. She was bred to Javera Thadrian back in September, and then bred again over the next few weeks.. I know Jeanne Craver is keeping a close eye on her, so I am not too worried..
Hi Joe (Ferriss), the association of El Gadaa with Miqhim ibn Mahayd speaks in favor of the horse.. but I have always felt he needed to be investigated further.. Do you know what the Hamdan Stud studbook has to say about him?
Page 66 of the Hamdan herd book has El Gadaa as follows (quoted). No date is shown.
1.—EL GADAA
Stallion, chestnut, bred by Sheikh Midjhem Ibn Meheyd of the Fidaan Anazeh Bedouin Tribe of Arabia.
Presented to Ahmed Hamza as a gift by Gadaan Ibn Meheyd.
Sire: El Sabaa, a Koheilan el Mohssen, who raced successfully in Lebanon.
Dam: A Maanagiyah.
Hi Jeanne, is there any reason not believe this information?
Both strains are staple Fad’aan strains. I will look up the Fad’aan family tree to see if there was a Gadaan (Jadaan) Ibn Mahayd alive in Miqhim’s time. There was of course a Jadaan Ibn Mahayd at the time of Lady Anne Blunt (the rider of Proximo), and Miqhim was his grandson. Also it may be useful to look up El Sabaa in what remains of the Lebanese racetrack archives..
It would be interesting to know what original material is left of Ahmad Hamza’s files for confirmation, but I know of no reason to discount what he wrote.
It will be nice to ask Nabil Nasrallah General Manager of the Beirut race track:
sparca@cyberia.net.lb
The Beirut race track archive are in very good and well kept, and Nabil a very nice gentleman.
It will be better if Jeanne ask him instead of Edouard or myself.
I can do that, in regard to asking about El Sabaa. Thanks for the address.
I called Omar Anbarjiand and asked him on the Ibn Mhayd departure date from Syria,luckily his father,who new Ibn Mhayd,was sitting next to him,the father stated that Ibn Mhayd never left Syria and died in Aleppo.So I asked Omar to give us on the blog,more accurate infos.It is Ramadan and we have to excuse our Moslem friends if they are not prompt to respond.
To JoeF.thank you for the flowers my friend I really dont deserve them.
How strange Joe… when I asked the same Omar Anbarji about the hujja of his Hamdaniyah mare (Deheym), he told me his father had to get a written hujjah from Miqhim Ibn Mhayd in Saudi to prove that she was Asil, because the registration committee would not accept the testimony of Miqhim’s “slaves” who had stayed behind in Syria when Miqhim left… we need to check with him again.
Lets wait for Omar answer on the subject ,I will be back Sunday to Damascus and will call him again.
Dear Edouard ,
I visit your blog, I just do not feed back because my knowledge about “other people’s horses ” is limited, it is a really great blog and I hope that one day you will talk about Hamdani Ofri or Kuhaylan Khdili in Syria, so I can write. Just 10 days ago , I had a more than great chestnut foal, dam Kuhaylan Khdele, sire by Hisham Alandalus, Hamdani ofri, I will send its picture one day to your blog.
Joe Achkar was so kind to call me and ask me to comment about Sheekh Mujhem.
Anyway, considering Sheekh Mujhem , what I know is that we got our Hamdani Ofri Mare from Sulayman Al Issa, which Mujhem left for him.
I have to admit that I am not sure where did Mujhem go, he stayed in Aleppo for a while, but later, I do not know.
Ahlan Omar, good to hear from you and Ramadan Karim. Thanks for your input, you know Kuhaylan al-Khdili is next on my list of strains, so you will have a chance to comment. Congratulations on your new foal.
Chira is the last pure Egyptian bred mare of this line.
She is not more Chestnut but Gray.
I am in good contact with the owner, a nice woman.
I’m going with Chira breed a foal, as any father, I have chosen Madin Ibn Sinan.
Good luck with this breeding Teymur. This is a very precious line.
Thank you Edouard……..
I hope she will get pregnant, and gets a filly.
One question, how can I upload photos here?
you send them to me,and I upload them in your name. ealdahdah@hotmail.com
Thank you Edouard, i will send it…
7 Descendants of Cleopatra sorted by year of birth!
1974 CLIZA,Mare by Kaisoon (grey)
1975 CONGO,Stallion by Madkour I (grey)
1976 CADIZ,Stallion by Madkour I (grey)
1977 CLEMA,Mare by Madkour I (grey)
1978 CYLIA,Mare by Madkour I (grey)
1979 MADTRAH,Stallion by Madkour I (grey)
1980 HAFIL,Stallion by Hamasa ibn Hadban (chestnut)
Do you know if they have progeny left other than Chira?
yes they have but…..Chira is the only Egypian bred.
6 Descendants of Cliza sorted by year of birth!
1977 SADDAT,stallion by Shereik non Egyptian (grey)
1979 MALIK,stallion by Ibn Mahasin Egyptian bred (grey)
1980 MAHDI,stallion by Ibn Mahasin Egyptian bred(chestnut)
1981 CHADISCHA,mare by El Aswad Straight Egyptian (grey)
1982 ALKOR,stallion by El Aswad Straight Egyptian (grey)
1992 PHARO,stallion by Palermo Anglo Arabian (bay)
3 Descendants of CHADISCHA sorted by year of birth!
1991 CHAFIJA,mare by Palermo Anglo Arabian (bay)
1993 PRIAMOS,stallion by Palermo Anglo Arabian (chestnut)
1994 PEDRO,stallion by Palermo Anglo Arabian (chestnut)
It is very sad to see how Breed in Germany.Non son of Cliza was employed for breeding.
Cliza self was breed with Anglo Arabian,
and their only daughter Chadisha by El Aswad earned only by Anglo Arabian foals.
Thus, this line of the oldest daughter of Cleopatra by Kaisoon is lost forever.
8 Descendants of Clema sorted by year of birth!
1981 CHAHAM,mare by El Aswad Straight Egyptian (chestnut/grey)
1982 CHA-BA,mare by Sarwat Straight Egyptian (bay)
1983 CHANDA,mare by Sarwat Straight Egyptian (grey)
1984 HADUR,stallion by Hadban Srtaight Egyptian (grey)
1987 CHARISMA,mare by Khaiber Egypt/Tunesian (grey)
1989 KASCHMIR,stallion by Khaiber (grey)
1990 CHARADE,mare by Khaiber (grey)
1995 NAKITA,mare by Nazdrowie Russian (grey)
1 Descendants of CHA-BA sorted by year of birth!
1987 CHARIM,stallion by Khamal El Aussuad (bay)
5 Descendants of Chanda sorted by year of birth!
1990 CARIM EL SHAYTAN,stallion by Anobis non Arab,(grey)
1993 CHARLEENA EL ASARI,mare by Sharazan Egyptian Related (grey)
1995 CHADISHA EL SABEK,mare by Sabek Russian (grey)
1997 KHASADY IBN KASYD,stallion by Kasyd Egypian Sired (grey)
2001 CALA AQUILA,mare by Al Adiyat Santander Egyptian Related (grey)
1 Descendants of CHARLEENA EL ASARI sorted by year of birth!
1997 CHATJERINA,mare by D’Anobis Anglo Arabian (grey)
1 Descendants of CHADISHA EL Sabek sorted by year of birth!
2001 RAIZA EL ANUBIS,mare by Non Arabian(grey)
So you see, non Egyptian bred today,from Cleopatras second daughter.
8 Descendants of Cylia sorted by year of birth!
1982 CYNIA,mare by Nizam Straight Egyptian (bay)
1985 CARMEN,mare by Hadban Sraight Egyptian (grey)
1986 CHARLY,stallion by Hadban Sraight Egyptian (grey)
1987 CHICA,mare by Kar Ibn Ibn Galal Straight Egyptian (grey)
1988 CAESAR,stallion by Kar ibn ibn Galal (grey)
1993 CHIRA,mare by Saymoon Sraight Egyptian (grey)
1995 EL CHUWEY,mare by Fardos Moussah Egyptian/Tunesian (grey)
1996 SOLEY,mare by Pedro Crabbet (grey)
Non registration of any Foals by the Third daughter of Cleopatra.
Hello!
By chance I found this blog about the line of cleopatra.
Unfortunately I didn’t understand everything.
But I would like to here more of the story of El Sabaa, who is – after my knowledge – the reason, that Cleopatras descendants aren’t accepted as AV, only as A.
I’m the owner of Clema’s Daughter Chanda (by Sarwat), since she was 2 years old. She’s 26 now. And her last daughter Cala Aquila (by Al Adyiat Santander) is also still with me.
Well, I would be glad to hear anything about the backgrounds of this story of El Sabaa.
My adress is desini@gmx.de
Greetings from germany
desini
that’s great that you still have a mare of this line.
you would not use an Egyptian stallion?
So as I said is the reason the stallion el gadaa with his pedigree.
I am searching pictures of cleopatra, but so far without success.
I will write to you.
I was the owner of Chadischa (El Aswad x Cliza v. Kaisoon) in her late years. She was a wonderfull horse and really beautiful. I planned to breed her to Hakeel Ibn Kaysoon, but unfortunately she died that year.
This family is not accepted as purebred Arabian Horse in Germany, I think this is the point why there are no foals in these lines. I tried to find out, if there are still any straight Egyptian Lines left, but unfortunately I did not find any to get another mare of this family…
Hello Alexandra…I hope one Day they will accepted as Pure Bred by the WAHO.
Very sadly,,,that Chadischa no any Egyptian Foal left.
I think,the other Eyptian Bred Mares of this line to old for a Foal.
has anyone pictures of pedro 1994? And was pedro in Egypt arround 1997? try to find out if this is the father of my mare.
thanks, bianca
Hello bianca
I’m so happy to hear that Soley is still alive…
Well i want to buy her older halfsister Chira,she is the last SE Mare of this Line,but unfortunately Claudia Döhring,her Owner doesn’t buy her or bred with her…
I’m very sad that no any have bred again with mare’s of this Line.
I want but i do not found any Mare of this line…and now,the two last Asil Mares are Chira and El Chuwey…both are Halfsisters to your Mare Soley.
Well here is a Photo of Pedro:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pedro16
He was a chestnut Stallion.
By the way…do you know is El Chuwey is alive?
Best wishes: Teymur
I’m very sad that no any have bred again with mare’s of this Line.
I want but i do not found any Mare of this line…and now,the two last Asil Mares are Chira and El Chuwey…both are Halfsisters to your Mare Soley.
Well here is a Photo of Pedro:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pedro16
But Pedro was born in 1974, and wasnt in Egypt…
your mare soley was born in 1996 her sir pedro in 1974,he was of crabbet/skowronek Bloodline.
He was a chestnut Stallion.
By the way…do you know is El Chuwey is alive?
Best wishes: Teymur
No any Horse who traces back to this Bint Nafaa is accpeted as Purebred by the WAHO.
Only as Partbred