Trian, 1959 asil Hadban Enzahi in the USA
Since we have been talking about the Hadban Enzahi strain in “Davenport” breeding in the USA, here is a photo of the 1959 stallion Trian (Tripoli x Ehwat-Ansarlah by Kasar), an earlier representative of this strain. He was the result of a collaboration between Liz Paynter who owned his dam, and Charles Craver who owned his sire.
Note the beautiful clean, arched mithbah (throat) so characteristic of this breed, and the perfectly set ears, head and neck. I have rarely seen these three parts join so well in a perfect ensemble.
Charles Craver wrote a wonderful article about Liz Paynter and Ehwat-Ansarlah. It was posted on the old GeoCities site at one time, and from there picked up by archive.org and saved for us. 🙂
http://web.archive.org/web/20010410032045/www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/3095/LizPaynter.html
or as a TinyUrl: http://tinyurl.com/299lxce
It’s also on the AK site at http://www.alkhamsa.org/publications/khamsat–quarterly-magazine/selected-articles/39-one-who-counted.html
and should appear on the DAHC site eventually —
I am new in the arabian breeding world, I read in Alkamsa an add about the Dirks havin this strain on Davenports in Colorado, and I wanted to breed my mare Venus Inzihiyah (Ibn Lothar x Shalimar Bedu) to one of their Hadban stallions.
I quit searching after somebody told me they moved to Arabia?!!! I tought it would be interesting, Babson, Tuhotmos and Davenport, but then again I am new at this, and I understand I have alot of miles ahead of me, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Obed this is a very interesting project, and I would go ahead with it. Asil non-Nazeer blood. I think DDA Ihsan or DDA Rasan are still out there, but I may be wrong. You need to ask Anita Enander who is following these Davenport Hadbans closely.
Edouard, given Obed’s comment, perhaps this would be an opportunity for you to describe the tribal origins (as best as can be ascertained) of Venus (the Hadban that went to Egypt in 1893) and Hadba (the Davenport mare imported to the US in 1906).
We know from mtDNA that they do not trace to the same female ancestress. Venus has the same haplotype as the Blunt mare Rodania, the Davenport imports Wadduda and Urfah, and the mare Cherifa imported to France in 1870. The Davenport import Hadba has a very different haplotype (differs at 9 sites according to the Bowling 2000 paper).
If one suggests breeding horses of the same strain, I usually ask the purpose people have in wanting to do so — especially now that we know that strain names are a useful way of keeping track of family, but not necessarily of genetics.
Obed, if you have not yet contacted Debra Schirshuhn, who worked with Fippens (breeders of your mare) for many years, I am happy to supply her contact info. She can tell you very much about both her sire and dam.
Anita
Good idea Anita. Will do. I still think that adding the Hadbans from Syria to the mtDNA study would help us generate conclusions from a broader sample.
Oh, oops, I forgot to add that the dam of Obed’s mare, Shallimar Bedu, has Nazeer (if only a little bit).
Anita
Anita,
The Davenport-Bradley breeding has been very successful in breeding same tail-female to same tail female. Just as it has been very successful in not. The difference in the two ways of breeding is not quality but patterns of type.
I realize you are saying there is no reason for strains as to breeding in the strain, per-say. I still have found line breeding has great results as to consistent type. Breeding same strain to same when the DNA is not the same
is not the same as line breeding! I will argue by the breedings I attempt to have offspring from. Yet, I often
breed crosses that are not the same tail-female for many other reasons.
I understand the points being made by DNA and tail female. I consider this a great breeding tool and the future holds many possibilities from this research. I now wonder how many different tail females have been found in the Al Khamsa test? And which lines have not been tested?
I wonder are only the Egyptian untested?
Hopefully this research will become a project of Al Khamsa with a book? Showing the history of each horse as to DNA. This could lead to some very enlighten information as to future breedings.
Realizing this is very new as to research, I wonder about
the findings as to understanding. I think, and is as always opinion, these new concepts are very open for actual baring as to the horses themselves.
Realizing my simple approach is just that, simplistic,
my writings are indeed mostly questions to I as well as to others. Your answers have been interesting, yet exposing as to what is often yet to be answered.
My guess is, only the horses can truly expose the answers. The future awaits…………….
Jacksoon
Jackson, when you bred Tybalt to June, you were not just linebreeding to *Werdi. You were also linebreeding to, e.g., Kasar, Jadaan, Letan, *Hamrah, *Abbeian, Fasal, Amran, *Wadduda, *Urfah, Moliah, and *Deyr.
Which of these several types did Asar Al Krush represent? Was he the type of *Werdi?
R.J. great question Asar was a type never seen before by me. Same as the others that followed. Today, I hardly see any of the Krush. So now I am starting over with Pulcher on my Krush mare. Asar was a great deal like the Krush stallion of Bahrain, maybe more refine. He also seemed a little more correct in over all balance.
Your question was really a good one, as it pertains to all statements either you or I have made.
Polcher is like many of the line bred stallions, yet only like himself. I felt he could bring balance, to what at least I would breed for. Perhaps, with that a refinement of type. Polcher is what, I think is needed! He has vitality extreme!
I am hoping this energy will bring back more of what was once started with, a true awareness of the dance of life. I really love seeing my Krush dance as they await I. Pulcher dances and I dance within.
I have no real ideas as to what will become? Perhaps just silly thinking of a person who awoke years ago, changing everything, and making room for Tybalt, June, and all the other mares and stallions of the Krush. Carol and I had many things in common, the greatest was the love of the Krush.
Asar had a great son, never used, the owner gelded. Lente, he was also like Asar. Very much alive, filled with energy
and extremely smart. A tall stallion as was Asar. Asar had a daughter that was very much like him and also Lente. The other Krush were simular even with different sires.
The photo’s of the Krush horses to day are on a different course.
I know you wanted an answer on just type. More to the point they were then many things different. They were bred to become
what was to be, I left the door open for them to come through dancing. Asar called me to him many times in the night he died. He never showed any sign he was ill or leaving. Asking me to remember what was long ago is difficult, yet a good memory is always both sad and happy.
Jackson
Anita,
I don’t know much about Shallimar Bedu, so yes I would like to contac Debra, I will text you my email address. for now Venus is confirm in foal to Shaliiq for april 2011 they both are from the same strain, I just tought about that know that you mention it, all I can say I saw size, color more laidback shoulder and high set neck, I think Venus needs stallions with those characteristics.