Ansata Ibn Sudan photos
The four shots of Ansata Ibn Sudan (Ansata Ibn Halima x Ansata Bint Mabrouka by Nazeer) were taken in 1972, and are from the photo collection of the late Billy Sheets. They were taken in 1972.
A blog on desert arabian horses, past, present and future
The four shots of Ansata Ibn Sudan (Ansata Ibn Halima x Ansata Bint Mabrouka by Nazeer) were taken in 1972, and are from the photo collection of the late Billy Sheets. They were taken in 1972.
Its a shame they’ve got him all stretched out behind. Makes it harder to properly assess the proportional length of the three joints in the hind legs.Stretching them out behind is a way of hiding the hind leg conformation from the viewer. Which is precisely why halter class handlers did it of course.
Still he looks a wee bit less fat than his sire.
Best wishes
Bruce Peek
hi edouard! hope all is well
i was having a roll in the park with my friend steph and she mentioned the gift the saudi king made to mitterand of 2 horses called “akhal teke”; apparently they had a golden robe: and we are not sure what this refers to… would you know?
best
these are the horses of the Turkmen, it’s a breed from Turkmenistan that was also developed in the soviet union.. beautiful horses.
Bruce, I agree, I nearly posted in the same vein but didn’t want to sound negative, and didn’t want people to think that I was disparaging the horse himself.
However these pics just give me an uneasy feeling… they seem the embryological stages of the hideous stretched and frozen poses that are such a demeaning insult to these beautiful horses today.
( Maybe I am wrong and this ridiculousness was established in the States before the seventies, but when I saw them I just thought oh so that’s where it all started 🙁 .)
There is no need in my view to carry a whip the length of a fishing rod to get an Arab horse to walk, trot and stand still and square, which is all that presenting a horse to a judge or camera should involve, (imo ! 😉 ).
I totally agree with Bruce that unnatural posing makes proper assesment of conformation very difficult. I remember once being shown a pretty badly put together horse by a world class ‘trainer’ , within two minutes of his fiddling and posing the horse, her faults were absolutely inapparent.
Many people make breeding selections on showing results, these reflect the ‘skill’ and reputation of the trainer, more , much more, than the merit of the horse. This bodes ill for the breed. I feel that in any case, as we are talking about ARABIAN HORSES here, not toy dogs, testing and selection should be (ideally, ha ha… in a ghazu) or failing that in endurance or other properly testing discilpline. Rant Over…. sorry.
By the way Edouard… these are GREAT photos and it doesn’t really matter where they were taken, or how/if the horses are not posed properly for conformation shots. They are absolute jewels to anyone who has these horses in their equine’s pedigree! Thanks so much for sharing them.
Lisa: The ,”unatural,” posing of the horse in halter events makes it had to judge conformation on purpose. It reached its apogee in the U.S. during the boom days of Arabian breeding. Two guys from the upper midwest who deserve to remain forever nameless, perfected, if such a word can be used, the techniques of trying to get the horse to arch their neck, while dropping their back. Since this is not a natural thing for a horse to do, whips and chains were the next thing used. Bang, bang, bang, with the whip, jerk, jerk, jerk, with the chain till the horse literally trembled with fear. The two guys from the upper midwest took many students from the show scene and taught them how to do this stuff, along with the awful buzzcut electric clippered look, and of course the oiled face and eyes too.
If the newly talked about Asil list proponents want to offer a valid, humane alternative maybe they could propose a halter class in which the handler leads the horse in stops, and stands there- no posing- no stretching. The judge could come out and measure the horses cannon bones,length of hip, length of back,and how high set the horses neck is in their shoulder, then have the horse trot out and back.
To be fair the pictures shown above predated the whip abuse stuff that really got rolling with the boom in the late 70’s early 80’s. Too bad there aren’t pictures of some of the big name horses doing a dressage test or jumping a cross country course.
Best wishes
Bruce Peek
Well, I echo your sentiments about the stretched pose, whip abuse and everything that keeps me away from Arabian Horse Shows these days. The worst abuse goes on in Brazilian show rings in my opinion, my stomach isn’t strong enough anymore to watch these cruelty.
This said, I want to defend the pictures of Ibn Sudan and put them in perspective. In the first two photos he isn’t stretched at all. At least in my eyes. Please keep in mind that Ibn Sudan was the born “showman”, he loved to show off,
always stroke a pose. When he saw a crowd, his tail flipped over his back, he began to trot, always snorting and blowing, with his neck perfectly curved. He stood like a statue. But he did that because it was his nature, nobody had to teach him that. His son Ansata Imperial had the same attitude, as well as Ansata Abu Sudan. They made their own show.
At the Nationals in 1971 Sudan did “his own show”, too. The only thing his handler had to do was not to get in his way. It worked, they won the Championship.
Don Forbis, who is at the lead here, was a real horseman who had a very good rapport with Sudan. I don’t care about the length of the whip, he never would use it anyway.
The last two pics are bad, Sudan is stretched out, but, hey, these are candid shots and it simply wasn’t the right moment. Two seconds later and the pictures would have been fine.
Sudan never was shown in the ridiculously stretched pose of a show poodle. There are hundreds of professional photos of him, he always stood proud and collected.
To make a long story short: I wholeheartedly agree with what was said about the showring excesses. But Ansata Ibn Sudan is the wrong example. He never was shown this way. We just see two very bad photos of him. That’s all.
Majestic lineage,as I said, I nearly didn’t post exactly because I didn’t want to upset anyone, I was not critising the horses and certainly NOT Edouard for posting them.
I only commented to express my feelings on viewing the photos, which was mild dismay.
Bruce, I agree with you entirely, here in Britain we have seen clips of the MidWest ‘training’ and showing, it is atrocious. I like your idea for ‘Asil’ showing, we have similar rules for showing Crabbet horses here in Britain. The ‘Crabbet’ classes (and these are increasingly popular even at the national show)do not allow spinning, shanking or unnatural posing, there is a limit on whip length etc. The classes are dignified and pleasant to watch and exhibit in, the horses are not stressed and allowed to show the beautiful NATURAL movement of the Arab. I will never be convinced that in hand showing is any real measure of an Arab horse whatsoever, but at least, IF done with respect for the horse and in such a way that the horse can be properly assessed, it is a good education for youngsters.
PS A couple of my clients bred Akhal Teke horses and they are doing well in endurance here, they are tough horses, their coats often have a metallic sheen, which is very beautiful. In my limited experience do not have the sublime movement of the Arab and are reputed to be not particularly good tempered, those that I know are perfectly nice, though not of the character of an Arab.
Understand Lisa! And, I do not show nor have any intention of showing… but I am a photographer, as well as an avid collector of photography… and oftentimes even a bad photo is a treasure. Plus, there are so many other conformation shots of Sudan and Ibn Halima that I guess I already know what they looked like and just enjoy these for historical reference.
Thanks MajesticLineage, of course I do understand the historical significance of these photos and your appreciation of them, in this context you are right the pose is irrelevant.
It just hurts my eyes to see Arabs presented in this way and I was surprised and saddened to see that this hideous fashion had such deep roots!
I’ve been a long time lurker, and I must say I was so tickled to see these pictures – thank you! as this family line is both top and bottom in my much treasured gelding(sadly) pedigree.