A blog on desert arabian horses, past, present and future
Asil Genealogies
10 Replies to “Asil Genealogies”
03/12/08
Edouard Al-Dahdah,
please explain: There are many lines of modern day Arabians horses that exit from the past and today with horses that we know for a fact that has a foreign blood in there pedigree, but they have been bred back to Asil lines for many generation” am I correct to say that theses “Hajin” horses as we know are not Asil Arabians? should we just call them (Hajin) or just Modern day Arabians?. Also did The Bedu consider a Asil Mare that was bred back to a Non Asil Stallion”(Muqrif)is it true that the bedu consider the later type breeding disgusting? and is this the thought today amongst bedu?” Do they breed Hajin horses as well Today? please can you also explain some time soon what, “Rasan and Type” really means? also why the bedu put the carry strain on to the mare side rather than the stallion. Also the wrong understanding that Raswan had about the Asil Managhi strain. I hope I have not burden you with to many question at once and I know all this will not come in one writing.
It would take an entire book to answer all your questions!
I will asnwer your first question, and leave the others for another time. The Bedouin’s way of looking at this is (or used to be, because times are changing) as follows: once an Asil horse is bred to a non-Asil (Hajin) horse, it descendants lose the Asil status forever, even if they are bred back to Asil horses for an infinite number of generations. To Bedouin, the products of such matings are not Asil. And I strongly adhere by this belief.
This is actually the same concept we follow here, although in our case, it’s for the breed overall, not just a group. A good example of this would be the “Pintabians”. You see many websites that advertise horses with “99.95% Arabian blood”. No matter how many times they are bred back to purebreds, they never again become purebred. We just go to the next step and define our different groups, such as AK, Davenport, Babson, etc.
Shukran, I look forward to your answers to my questions.I hope some day you do write a book.
I have a Arabian mare here( I pray) that her grand dam was imported here in America some 30 years ago along with 100 plus other racing Arabians from the Jordan Royal stables by a man who never had these horses register here because of some reason he could not. This mare grand dam and Dam was bred back into what is call here Davenport Arabians. She is 3/4 Asil Bred thru Davenport but I don’t know if these horses that was bred in Jordan was Asil. I have her Grand Dam Arabic Hujja, with me,Her “Rasan is Hamdaniyah Al-Efri” How should I go about to find if she truly All Asil Bred? or not Asil at All?. Could I send you the Hujja and you could check it out, Which ever way is find for me please Guide me in the right direction. Lastly Is Turfa Kuhaylan or Abbayyan? some say this some say the other. please tell me which is correct according to the tribe that bred her.
By all means please go ahead and send me her hujja to check out.
I don’t know anything about your mare in particular. However, I recall hearing years ago that an importation of a large batch of race horses to the USA from Jordan took place in 1970s. What I had understood was that these were from the Jordanian Royal stables but rather from the stables of Sharif (Prince) Nasir bin Jamil, who was the cousin of King Husain of Jordan.
What I had also heard was the dams of many of these imported horses were true Asil Arabians, but that the sires were Anglo-Arab. Mixing the best desert Asil blood with English Thouroughbred stallions to obtain racehorses that have some of the features of Arabian horses have been a common breeding practice of Sharif Naser’s. If the granddam of your mare was an older mare when she was imported to the USA in the 1970s, then there are chances she could have been Asil. If she came as a younger filly then chances are that she was not.
I shall send you the Hujja and her sire was listed as a Al-Hamdani stallion, so I really cant say if they are all Asil but I pray she is.please tell me the best way to send it to you.my P.o box here in Colorado is P.O box 39 Capulin Co. 81124
Dear Said
As per the vol,I of the royal Jordanian stud book 1980, the only registred horses sent to the USA are:
1962″al dahabi” sent by the sherif nasser (as per edouard)He was by Ushaae who traces to Skoworonek.
1975 “Al Borak” by Bahar
“Balua” by Bahar
“Leila” by Bahar
1977 “Jasmina” by MadridxMashalla II
Bahar was by “Ushaae” wich makes<his progeny non-Asil Madrid was “Asil” as he was by Abu Argub by Selman by Mansour E.A.O and Al Yamama who was an Asil Jordanian mare.
Mashalla II was non-Asil as by “Ushaahe”
As a manner of fact the Royal Jordanian” horses are not “Asil” despite the fact that they roots mares are pure bedouin mares coming to Jordan from Hejaz with King Abdallah I or as gifts byTrans-Jordanians bedouin sheiks.Many of these mares were mated to “Ushaaee” who came as a gift to the King from general Franco in 1948.Some of them were mated to the “Asil” “Selman” a gift from king Farouk of Egypt in 1940 “Selman” was half-brother to “Nazeer” on his sire side; but his daughters were mated to “Ushaaee” or his sons;one must remember that on these times few people in the world knew the truth about”Skworonek’s” true pedigree.
No “Hujja” in our modern days is valid until registred in a stud book,
Al Salam Aleikum l
Dear Terri
Your horses are georgeous ,a real beauty
As per 99,95% of arab blood in “pintarabians” ,who by the way are lovely horses,this exactly the problem with non-asil horses;
In the 19th century the Westerners,especially the Poles,imported mainly Stallions to ameliorate their local mares:after 6 generations of infusing bedouin blood you have nearly 99,95% of arab blood.this is the pedigree of the Polish horses whom we respect as “sons of our horses”
regards
Joe
Joe,
Thank you for the compliments! They are greatly appreciated. We have a small herd of Ma’aneghi horses. The majority are Ma’aneghi Hadruj, with 1 mare being Ma’aneghiyah S’bailiyah. This is the mare that is due in April, and this foal will be our first second generation pure in strain Ma’aneghi. Inshallah! If all goes well, I promise to have pictures as soon as I can. We are anxiously awaiting this foal with great anticipation. and once this happens, I am due to update my website, so I should have some new photos of everyone to post there.
Also, I must comment on the Edouard’s photo of the stallion, Marzuk. He strongly resembles the sire of our pregnant mare, CSA Amira Kista. Her sire was Sharif Zaraq. I have videos of this stallion, and Marzuk could be his double. A very handsome boy in both cases.
Thanks again,
Terri
Out of all the Sharif Nasser horses that came to the USA in 1960s, Al-Dhabi was actually the only horse that came from the Royal Jordanian Stud, and was therefore eligible for registration in the USA. That doesn’t mean that he was registered.
03/12/08
Edouard Al-Dahdah,
please explain: There are many lines of modern day Arabians horses that exit from the past and today with horses that we know for a fact that has a foreign blood in there pedigree, but they have been bred back to Asil lines for many generation” am I correct to say that theses “Hajin” horses as we know are not Asil Arabians? should we just call them (Hajin) or just Modern day Arabians?. Also did The Bedu consider a Asil Mare that was bred back to a Non Asil Stallion”(Muqrif)is it true that the bedu consider the later type breeding disgusting? and is this the thought today amongst bedu?” Do they breed Hajin horses as well Today? please can you also explain some time soon what, “Rasan and Type” really means? also why the bedu put the carry strain on to the mare side rather than the stallion. Also the wrong understanding that Raswan had about the Asil Managhi strain. I hope I have not burden you with to many question at once and I know all this will not come in one writing.
Thank you Abu Uwais Al-Mahgribi
It would take an entire book to answer all your questions!
I will asnwer your first question, and leave the others for another time. The Bedouin’s way of looking at this is (or used to be, because times are changing) as follows: once an Asil horse is bred to a non-Asil (Hajin) horse, it descendants lose the Asil status forever, even if they are bred back to Asil horses for an infinite number of generations. To Bedouin, the products of such matings are not Asil. And I strongly adhere by this belief.
This is actually the same concept we follow here, although in our case, it’s for the breed overall, not just a group. A good example of this would be the “Pintabians”. You see many websites that advertise horses with “99.95% Arabian blood”. No matter how many times they are bred back to purebreds, they never again become purebred. We just go to the next step and define our different groups, such as AK, Davenport, Babson, etc.
Edouard,
Shukran, I look forward to your answers to my questions.I hope some day you do write a book.
I have a Arabian mare here( I pray) that her grand dam was imported here in America some 30 years ago along with 100 plus other racing Arabians from the Jordan Royal stables by a man who never had these horses register here because of some reason he could not. This mare grand dam and Dam was bred back into what is call here Davenport Arabians. She is 3/4 Asil Bred thru Davenport but I don’t know if these horses that was bred in Jordan was Asil. I have her Grand Dam Arabic Hujja, with me,Her “Rasan is Hamdaniyah Al-Efri” How should I go about to find if she truly All Asil Bred? or not Asil at All?. Could I send you the Hujja and you could check it out, Which ever way is find for me please Guide me in the right direction. Lastly Is Turfa Kuhaylan or Abbayyan? some say this some say the other. please tell me which is correct according to the tribe that bred her.
Abu Uwais Al-Mahgribi
By all means please go ahead and send me her hujja to check out.
I don’t know anything about your mare in particular. However, I recall hearing years ago that an importation of a large batch of race horses to the USA from Jordan took place in 1970s. What I had understood was that these were from the Jordanian Royal stables but rather from the stables of Sharif (Prince) Nasir bin Jamil, who was the cousin of King Husain of Jordan.
What I had also heard was the dams of many of these imported horses were true Asil Arabians, but that the sires were Anglo-Arab. Mixing the best desert Asil blood with English Thouroughbred stallions to obtain racehorses that have some of the features of Arabian horses have been a common breeding practice of Sharif Naser’s. If the granddam of your mare was an older mare when she was imported to the USA in the 1970s, then there are chances she could have been Asil. If she came as a younger filly then chances are that she was not.
Shukran Edouard
I shall send you the Hujja and her sire was listed as a Al-Hamdani stallion, so I really cant say if they are all Asil but I pray she is.please tell me the best way to send it to you.my P.o box here in Colorado is P.O box 39 Capulin Co. 81124
Dear Said
As per the vol,I of the royal Jordanian stud book 1980, the only registred horses sent to the USA are:
1962″al dahabi” sent by the sherif nasser (as per edouard)He was by Ushaae who traces to Skoworonek.
1975 “Al Borak” by Bahar
“Balua” by Bahar
“Leila” by Bahar
1977 “Jasmina” by MadridxMashalla II
Bahar was by “Ushaae” wich makes<his progeny non-Asil Madrid was “Asil” as he was by Abu Argub by Selman by Mansour E.A.O and Al Yamama who was an Asil Jordanian mare.
Mashalla II was non-Asil as by “Ushaahe”
As a manner of fact the Royal Jordanian” horses are not “Asil” despite the fact that they roots mares are pure bedouin mares coming to Jordan from Hejaz with King Abdallah I or as gifts byTrans-Jordanians bedouin sheiks.Many of these mares were mated to “Ushaaee” who came as a gift to the King from general Franco in 1948.Some of them were mated to the “Asil” “Selman” a gift from king Farouk of Egypt in 1940 “Selman” was half-brother to “Nazeer” on his sire side; but his daughters were mated to “Ushaaee” or his sons;one must remember that on these times few people in the world knew the truth about”Skworonek’s” true pedigree.
No “Hujja” in our modern days is valid until registred in a stud book,
Al Salam Aleikum l
Dear Terri
Your horses are georgeous ,a real beauty
As per 99,95% of arab blood in “pintarabians” ,who by the way are lovely horses,this exactly the problem with non-asil horses;
In the 19th century the Westerners,especially the Poles,imported mainly Stallions to ameliorate their local mares:after 6 generations of infusing bedouin blood you have nearly 99,95% of arab blood.this is the pedigree of the Polish horses whom we respect as “sons of our horses”
regards
Joe
Joe,
Thank you for the compliments! They are greatly appreciated. We have a small herd of Ma’aneghi horses. The majority are Ma’aneghi Hadruj, with 1 mare being Ma’aneghiyah S’bailiyah. This is the mare that is due in April, and this foal will be our first second generation pure in strain Ma’aneghi. Inshallah! If all goes well, I promise to have pictures as soon as I can. We are anxiously awaiting this foal with great anticipation. and once this happens, I am due to update my website, so I should have some new photos of everyone to post there.
Also, I must comment on the Edouard’s photo of the stallion, Marzuk. He strongly resembles the sire of our pregnant mare, CSA Amira Kista. Her sire was Sharif Zaraq. I have videos of this stallion, and Marzuk could be his double. A very handsome boy in both cases.
Thanks again,
Terri
Out of all the Sharif Nasser horses that came to the USA in 1960s, Al-Dhabi was actually the only horse that came from the Royal Jordanian Stud, and was therefore eligible for registration in the USA. That doesn’t mean that he was registered.