Happy Holidays
I am in Lebanon for the holidays with the family, and have been catching up on some Arabian horse reading. All the important books are here, and I only quote from memory when in the USA. Just finished re-re-reading “The Crabbet Arabian Stud” by R. Archer et al, and have started Lady Wentworth’s “The Authentic Arabian Horse”. Can’t help lamenting how she messed with her mother’s “Book of Fragments” each time. Someone ought to reconstitute that book from scratch and republish it.
I also flipped through Raswan’s “Black Tents of Arabia”. Somehow I never feel safe with Raswan. There is some good information, in the middle of a sea of misleading and often wrong statements. I really feel I could fill an entire new blog at the rythm of a post per day documeting these, and I know I eventually will some day. Meanwhile, I have learned to respect him as a passionate advocate of the preservation of the asil Arabian in the USA. He must have been a really nice person, too.
I think there are two ‘golden rules’ about Lady Blunt and Raswan, concerning information about horses, strains, tribes, etc. I have said this before, and will continue to say it: I would consider her generally right unless proven wrong, and him generally wrong unless proven right.
Edouard,I agree,I would love to see that work published unadulterated and in full. The diary sources for the excellent book ‘Lady Anne Blunt her journals and correspondence’ are housed in the British library, does this also home the ‘Book of Fragments’??
The editors of Lady Anne’s published Journals and Correspondence state regarding Lady Anne’s manuscript, “the extensive use that Lady Wentworth made of her mother’s work in The Authentic Arabian Horse, for which the type had been set by 1939, indicates that at least a very large portion of the manuscript had survived until then. It is not known to exist now.” Page 479, note 123.
I have reviewed the British Library catalog of the Wentworth Bequest and have not located anything that would seem to be Lady Anne’s manuscript. But none of Lady Wentworth’s other manuscripts seem to be part of the Wentworth Bequest, either.
Paragraph 6 of Lady Wentworth’s will says, in relevant part, “my Trustees shall delegate… the duties of literary executors and for this purpose [the literary executors] shall have acccess to and deal with all my papers manuscripts and other documents connected with my books published and unpublished and (with the consent of the said Geoffrey Frederick Covey) they shall decide upon the disposal of the Byron papers to the best advantage…. I request that my Trustees shall offer to the Trustees for the time being of the British Museum London or alternatively to any other important Museum or Public Library such of my papers and manuscripts as they may consider of permanent value or shall not desire to retain and wish to put in safe keeping especially the best of my mother Lady Anne Blunt’s sketch books. I leave the ultimate disposal of the aforesaid papers to the discretion of the Trustees….”
Raswan pointed a direction, never to be taken lightly, or with lack of respect. He pointed out the flaws of Lady Wentworth’s breeding’s and urged those who followed, the
wisdom to save the Asil.
Did he have the computer for facts as today or the abilities for research, no. But then his father was not as yours, Edouard. Nor was his abilities to research as is Jeanne’s, Carol’s, R.J., Michael’s, or Charles. Today we have Al Khamsa collective knowledge with your own insight’s. Then there was Dianne’s who was first guided by Jane Ott. The list is long and the best we see comes from those that have gone before, and remain our will to listen. Yes, I think differently then much of Raswan, yet
I heard his cries for the past and the Bedouin’s he knew.
Perhaps if you walked his way, you would realize where he came from in his studies and writings?
Question, yes, in that comes the learning of what is.
The DNA of fact’s. Truth’s unfolding into reflections
of time, time past into now. Edouard let the writings
of others guide you into more, that alone will be enough.
Your work stands on your own insight, no need to put yourself on top of others. Am sure this blog or the Khamsat or other outlays will hear your thoughts as they reflect the Bedouin and the horse we all love, the Asil.
Hope you time with family is, and you travels of the mind are. Come home, and God speed.
Jackson/Bedouin Arabians
I am not putting myself on top of others, Jackson. You did not seem to get my point. I am legitimately critiquing his work which is presented as serious scholarship, which it is not. Unless you put Raswan down his pedestal, and open his writings to critiquing the way the work of Ahmad Mabrouk or Homer Davenport or others is critiqued, knowledge about Arabian horses in their homeland will never evolve. And it has nothing to do with access to computers. It has to do with telling the truth, and not making up things.
To continue the story, it wasn’t until July of 1964, nearly 7 years after Lady Wentworth died, that the papers, photos, diaries, sketch books, etc. that make up the Wentworth Bequest were received by the British Museum (the British Library was spun off the British Museum in 1973). Apparently Lady Wentworth’s trustees, not Lady Wentworth herself, decided what from her big old house would be deposited with the British Museum.
The trustees divided the Wentworth Bequest into two broad portions: the papers of the Blunts, which apparently were available to researchers more or less immediately, and the papers of Lady Wentworth, which were sealed for, I can’t remember exactly how long, another 35 or 40 years, but are available now. Presumably the trustees reserved a portion because many of the people mentioned therein were still living in 1964. That’s a fairly standard practice when a decedent’s papers are deposited with a library or museum, although for decades Arabian horse breeders used to tell each other that the British Museum held a “sealed Wentworth box” that would one day be opened to reveal “all the true pedigrees” of her horses.
I assume from the terms of Lady Wentworth’s will and because none of her manuscripts or papers connected with her books seem to be in the British Library today that the literary executors dealt with this material separately.
Is it possible at this late date to determine the identity of the literary executors, in order to find where the papers not in the British Library might have been sent?
Lady Wentworth wrote in The Authentic Arabian Horse, “Concerning the Horse of Arabia, Lady Anne wrote of ‘Three Voices.’ To this is now added a Fourth and Final Voice — her own. It comes to us now from another world to which all her hopes had vanished. Let us listen to those things she spent all her life in learning. Her voice echoes the voices of the desert which had become part of her spirit. Let us listen to it, for it speaks to us for the last time. It can only live in these pages, and after this book is written will elsewhere be forever silent.”
Some people have interpreted the last sentence to mean that after Lady Wentworth wrote her own book, she destroyed her mother’s manuscript. It can also be read as Lady Wentworth being overly dramatic about Lady Anne having intended her Book of Fragments to be her final word on the Arabian horse.
I think to get the greatest value out of Raswan’s works, the reader also has to be realistic about him.
Quite right R J Cadranell, that is true of most sources.
Sorry, I hadn’t thought about it properly (and, clearly, hadn’t read the edtors’ notes thoroughly! though it is some years since I read the book in full) but it is obvious that the editors of ‘letters and journals’ didn’t have access to the manuscriptof the book of fragments, though Lady Blunt refers to it in her journals.
So .. the last person to read it to our knowledge is was Lady Wentworth.
How, then, do we know whether the words attributed to Lady Blunt in the Authentic Arabian horse weren’t in fact a faithful copy (which may be possible as much of the book is written in a tone of contrition and respect for her mother) rather than as Edouard suggests ‘messed with’, other than Lady Wentworth’s known compulsion, (like father like daughter) to ‘mess with’? I am talking specifically of the ‘book of fragments’ here, not the diaries and letters.
Finally then, the best we have are the diaries and letters and Lady Wentworth’s rendering of the ‘book of fragments’ in the middle section of the Authentic Arabian Horse.
My feeling is that, in any case, this section, even if it has been ‘Wentworthed’ would be worth publishing as it stands. Some bits are quoted in Lesley Skippers new book, but other than that this valuable information is out of print, and even in Lady Wentworth’s book is hemmed in between her (very enjoyable) rantings on the origin of the thoroughbred and later musings (some useful much horribly outdated/foolish) on matters such as photography, horse training and (!) veterinary matters.
Lady Blunt’s work certainly reports beliefs that may founder under modern scientific scrutiny but I believe that it is as accurate a reflection of the Bedouin horse breeding culture and beliefs at that time that an outsider could ever submit, and for that alone it is of value.
Even reading it in 2005, it elucidated for me Bedouin customs that explained the behaviour of Bedouin friends which only two weeks previously seemed puzzling to us. To me it rings true,the lady we who wrote it was intelligent, meticulous, devoted to facts (religious faith aside)and felt a genuine mission to preserve what to her (and us) was of value and beauty.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful were it found?
In the meantime Edouard, did you say that King Abdallah’s book was to be translated into English at some point?
BTW Did Lady Anne Lytton ever refer to knowing of the whereabouts of the book of fragments?
BTW For what it is worth (and it is not worth a lot!) I read Lady Wentworths words in the second sense (as above, RJ Caranell, 28 Dec).
I am not trying to suggest above that Lady W didn’t ‘mess with’ even her mother’s words, indeed that first copy of the Authentic Arabian Horse that I read had her Skowronek justification section included,( my copy doesn’t) which if I remember rightly even invoked her mother in implying that his mother’s pedigree as beyond reproach which is directly at odds with Lady Blunts comments re Polish pedigrees in her journals.I just mean to ask whether we have any reason to doubt that the actual sections which are quoted as from the pen of Lady Blunt are not a faithful copy.
OH, hang on…Having just written that I have the book on my lap and yes Edouard,I see what you mean chopped about, mixed up chronologically, tangled with Wilfreds versions of her early diaries and continuously interupted by Lady Wentworth… I rest YOUR case, messed with indeed.
When I read your post I took it to mean that you thought Lady W had tried to change the essence and meaning of the Lady Blunt’s paragraphs themselves,as Wilfred had previously, and was not sure why she would do this.
For me Carl Raswan remains an inspiration in the same way that he was to me when I first became enamored with the Arabian horse 4 decades ago. Over time I learned that he was a complex person, not unlike others I discovered. I only look at his content carefully and not as a primary source academically. Often for me it is more about the sentiment of his writing and that contributed greatly to my appreciating the originating culture of the breed. By the time I visited the Shammar, they had conveyed that they were not always happy with what had been written about them by travelers, even going so far as to criticize some of Lady Anne Blunt’s comments about them. Gulsun Sherif told me that some things that had been written about her great grandfather Ali Pasha Sherif were not true as well.
I know what it is like to be wrong. I have misspoken before but like others who value evolving knowledge, I grow from what new things are learned and place the past in its proper context. Unfortunately for Carl Raswan, he was not much different in age when he passed away than I am now so it will remain a mystery if and how he might ever have revisited his earlier writing. For me, his work is an important part of the amalgam of knowledge of the original Arabian horse, particularly those parts which are supported by other knowledge. It is difficult even today to have a truly accurate picture of the breed. It is steeped in legend and debate and probably has caused more words to be written and spoken than any other breed of Equine. Truth is what we believe it to be at the time we discover it. That is always the easy part. The hard part for some is accepting a new truth that contradicts the old one. For me discovery is always exciting as it is for many others who visit this site. Raswan like all others have their place in the facets of the breed’s legacy, but none have the last word.
I agree Joe.
Lady Blunt certainly revised many of her early views as she was lucky enough to live a sufficiently long life to allow her the perspective to do so.
What we need (!)is a detailed comprehensive work written anytime in the thousand years prior to the mid 19th century by representatives of all the major horsebreeding tribes, failing that ALL work by outsiders, though some is of great value, must be read with circumspection.
The views of knowledgeable, particularly older, Bedouin people(though born long after the Zenith of the Arab as a warhorse) are precious and it is of great value that people like Edouard,Yasser and Hazaim interview such people and record their words.
The last word must go to the Bedouin, echoed from the past.
Edouard,
The steps of any ladder must be climbed to advance higher, removal of the bottom steps is unwise. It is those steps one must use to move upward. They are not tossed aside, but saved. If you want others to hear the truth, the bottom steps for all are necessary to climb to go above.
Joe is far better at expression then I, and I have limited abilities of debatable knowledge. His travels and years of study and added years of Khamsat direction, gift
this blog and those who listen or take part, a bonus.
Yes, perhaps Raswan is one of the bottom runs, but it is a step bearing our weight to move up. Thanks to you, this blog, the world as become smaller and information of a higher level. I think this is also what you were saying,
perhaps I misunderstood your example. As you misread mine.
Learning as an open tool for discovery to what was and still remains is what Al Khamsa is all about. You are part of this bridge to the past into the future, steps higher to seeing. What Joe has said, the bottom steps are
necessary to hold the ladder as well as to climb higher.
I hope all this year end review, yours as our’s leads to a great 2012.
Joe I have read and still reread your years of Khamsat, a pleasure. Both you and your wife gave ever so much to Al Khamsa, your years with the Bedouin horse, and especially
a dog that was ever so loved. You both gave ever so much to the understanding, Bedouin Arabian Horses can be and still are, Asil.
Yes, Edouard your steps are up the ladder, but the bottom runs help keep the ladder together.
May the foals remain Asil, Jackson/Bedouin Arabian Horses
I maintain the point that Raswan urgently needs to be revisited, critiqued, clarified, corrected (as he himself strove to do till the end) for knowledge on the breed to continue to evolve. I agreed it needs to be done respectufully, and building on the knowledge not destroying it.
The reason knowledge on the breed is still stuck in misconceptions like “strain = type”, and Ma’naqis not being asil is because of him, as well as numerous fabrications like the five of al dinari, the ma’naqi related strains, etc.
I also think that serious authorities need to cite their sources, and that’s another issue with Raswan in general.
(A)The name *Haleb says it all, the pride of the Desert!
(B)Line breeding can create type
(C)Raswans greatest failure was the Davenports, here all your remarks are highlighted, the greatest group imported were;
not the Egyptians! But the Davenports, and *Haleb was the stallion. Here alone says it all! Al Khamsa has been slowly correcting the errors of past writer’s. With your help the understanding will come. Perhaps far sooner then later!
Edouard, thanks for your charity and your last remarks!
Happy New Year to you and your family!
Suppose you were a horse breeding bedouin and these germans, hungarians,french and british and american guys kept showing up wanting to buy horses. Further suppose that they also inevitably brought with them unwanted attention from the Ottoman government, which you were none too fond of in the first place- think high taxes for little or no services etc. Would you not be inclined to ,’spin yarns,’ as it were just to get rid of these guys?
best wishes
Bruce Peek
of course, and that’s probably what happened most of the time. It certainly explains how most of the stallions imported to Europe are listed as “Saqlawi Jadran”, which is what westerners wanted most. There is no way there were that many Saqlawi Jadran stallions born in Arabia between 1880 and 1920.
Exactly, which gives me the opportunity to ask a (possibly stupid, in which case I appologise) question regarding Hujjah.
I have read in comments on this blog accusations of horses having been bought ‘without hujjah’!! as though this definitively implied that the horse was suspect at best.
Yet we all know the value of ‘pieces of paper’ (I rode my horses into Syria from Turkey on a certificate written in two languages and covered in stamps and signatures which apparently stated that the horses were ‘healthy’ and ‘had no tumours’,the veterinary officials who signed it had never set eyes on my horses… this was despite my very best efforts to play by the rules and do things properly btw)
That was in 2005,are we seriously suggesting that papers written in the early 20th or 19th century were worth more ?
Did the tribesmen over the centuries use Hujjah at every transaction…men who were illiterate ,men of honour and who depended on oral tradition; in the course of a transaction occuring in a camp in the desert…did they send for a scribe or did they make a deal based on their honour and the oral swearing of the ancestry of the horse?
Conversely how very easy for a dealer in a town to produce a certificate of authenticity stating whatever he wishes,including perhaps that the horse is Seglawi Jedran!:)
Does a bit of paper have any more value than the spoken word of the man who signed it?
I am not saying a Hujjah is never of value of course,they are, I am sure, in some cases of extreme value and interest,just that I don’t understand that a horse bought without one is necessarily suspect nor that a hujjah itself necessarily be above suspicion.
When I said that the last word goes to the Bedouin I meant in terms of their traditions, their values and criteria in appraising horses, not their word in terms of the sale of any individual horse. The reason I said this is that it depresses me that so much store is placed on the written words of outsiders as we have discussed above and even more ridiculously, today we have Arab Sheikhs in thrall to American and European ‘trainers and producers’, meekly taking their ‘expert’ advice on the breeding of Arabian horses.
It brings a whole new meaning to the British idiom ‘he could sell sand to the Arabs’.
I hope that the work of Edouard, Hazaim , Yasser and others and importantly the translation into English of books now only available in Arabic will help reassert Bedouin ownership of his own horse in the wider sense.
Of course the best of the Western work, that which is diligent and scholarly does also give the Bedouin of past centuries ago a voice, and as such is of enormous value.
“The reason knowledge on the breed is still stuck in misconceptions like “strain = type”, and Ma’naqis not being asil is because of him…”
I’d agree with your statement, Edouard, though I do think that Raswan (most probably unwittingly) wrote that there were two main “types”, momentarily forgetting about his non-inclusion of the Ma’naqis. These two types he refers to as masculine (blue – Kuhaylan) and feminine (red – Saqlawi) as per his chart in Black Tents. http://www.agecroft.com.au/materials/matimages/strainsr1.jpg
The little bit I’ve learnt about conformation from an naive perspective ie no overbearingly subjective conformity issues to adhere to but looking and learning from the horse why a horse moves the way it does, suggests that there are indeed two main body constructs exhibited by Arabian Horses. To my mind, deviations from these are more or less the admixtures of the two.
Essentially, the Arabian Horse is either compact and rotund build needing skeletal angulations to navigate this roundness without hindrance to their movement and the longer and leaner build who don’t need quite the same degree of skeletal angulations due to their leanness. The latter group look “lighter” – less depth of body, particularly through the flank.
Quotes from Authentic Arabian Horse (3rd revision – 1979) are on my website starting here http://www.agecroft.com.au/materials/begin.htm
To me, the reason why Raswan and some other non-Bedu, non-Arab writers tried to classify the observed diversity of the desert horse into “type descriptions” could be the difference in “western” verses “eastern” thinking. Raswan was likely searching for a way, a theory, that would satisfy his curiosity of why things appeared as they did to him. Think of how many of us wish to “classify” and define specifically elements which to “easterners” were a matter of “essence” and not specific definition. So naturally Raswan’s definitions could not truly illlustrate that which was known to the Bedouin, it was only his way of attempting to “define” in a western way.
We tend to have a hard time with nebulous things, and sometimes that difficulty obscures the essence of what we are observing. The eastern mind allows for defining and experiencing things at the moment in a practical way and definition is unnecessary, perhaps feeling is more important in the eastern world. The breed was not foreign to them, only to the visitor. Certainly to a Bedouin, a poem about his horse was more important to him than a hujah because he already knew completely why he valued the horse about which he wrote the poem. This may also explain the evolving need by some for Hujaj, more to create the “definition” that the westerner desires. I am cut from the same “western” fabric but over the years some experiences have shown me how eastern thought is different and then appreciating it helps to liberate past sometimes restrictive notions.
All of this serves to remind us that each piece of learning and discovery that we experience must be carefully placed into context and into the amalgam of what is called the Arabian horse.
Thanks, Joe. This is a very important concept to come to grips with, and I appreciate every clarification I can get!
Jackson, I did not mean to be rude or offensive, and if I was, it was certainly not intentional. I know Raswan was both a friend, neighbor and mentor to you, and I respect that.
It may have sounded presumptuous that a mere 33 year old like myself tries to take shots at the master of Arabian horse preservation in Europe and the USA, so I will try to stick to the facts, and let the reader judge, in a more deferent way than I have done so far.
Edouard,
Raswan was known to me through Richard Pritzlaff, Charles Craver, and others, who live here in New Mexico, as well as the Ott’s. I was shown his original writings and read those that Richard held as well as those Charles had. I learned from his writings, he often, more often, said what he thought others wanted or needed to hear. He was a constant contradiction in his notes and letters. Saying that, he was a passion for many in his love for the Bedouin and his horses.
DNA struck down the strain-type theory! *Haleb over ruled
the stain as type, or even the question of Asil! As to Raswan opinions he help form Al Khamsa into becoming a research. His opinions have long been sorted out, and held as opinion. Separated from fact. Just most of us have stated our own opinion on a limited scale. Now you have forced us to react to you and others. Not bad, Edouard! When this is said, over and over, I hope understanding will be the keynote.
Raswan’s passion was his greatest gift. Second, was his direction that his writings started. Certain I am, Al Khamsa is today, because of issues with the Blue Catalog and Raswan’s opinions. Yet, it is those opinions that led to viable discovery, perhaps even leading to you. Being thirty three has nothing to do with anything, except you have years possible ahead of you. So far, I would say you have done well, extremely well.
Your passion speaks well to all, even if I have thinking separate at times as to words, I would say agreement is.
Needless, Jackson / Bedouin Arabians
What you say Jackson clarifies it all. I have nothing to add. You are wise and you know what you are talking about.
Well said Jackson. I too have read some of Raswan’s unpublished and personal writings and also visited people who knew him on a first hand basis, some who he lived with for various periods of time. As well I had the opportunity to visit with his wife. All of this has given me a more complete understanding of the complexities of Raswan as well as his contributions.
No other breed instills such passion and passion both motivates and colors perspective. For that reason the artist expresses his or her passion through their work, leaving others to embrace and or interpret. With such a breed of legend we are all in this experience for both learning and inspiration. Facts are important for learning, inspiration is important for commitment and dedication.
It is interesting that in the early years Raswan was a great inspiration to me yet the more I got to understand him and his complexity, the more I learned about myself and the more I grew as an Arabian horse enthusiast. He is not the only one. There have been and still are many such around us. May they long live.
“I would consider her generally right unless proven wrong.” I wonder where the Lady Anne Blunt film will come down on how accurate she was in reporting what she saw and truthfully writing it down.. And of course theres’ the matter of her somewhat less than better half- Wilfred. Didn’t he rather thoroughly edit her major published works. And was that part of the reason for her later works like,I think- fragments. I think you who are richer and more deeply knowledgeable about L.A.B. would be in a position to accurately critique the film.
best wishes
Bruce Peek
When one reads the book “The Saluqi Coursing Hound of the East” and or William Lancaster’s writing which is footnoted in the Saluqi book it reminds us of the age old issue of Western versus Eastern ideas on lineage.
Taking all these things into account, regardless of how scrupulous and meticulous Lady Anne Blunt was, there remains the issue of a westerner interpreting information about lineages from a Bedu. I generally agree with Edouard’s review process of Blunt/Raswan information but remain open to the possibility of history evolving based on new discovery.
I sometimes am curious about those horses Lady Anne Blunt let go from her “first attempt.” Was she still a bit new to Eastern or Bedu ideas on lineage and then perhaps employing western skepticism, eliminated from breeding otherwise perhaps useful desertbreds that could have expanded the base of the Blunts beginnings?
There is too much detail in the above mentioned books to go into here but reflecting on some of it is what makes me give a bit broader brush to putting faith in horses of reasonable assumption than some do. Especially in the light of relatively recent new learning from Tahawi traditions as just one example.
Bruce,
If you were to read just one of ‘Lady Blunt’s’ books I would suggest,if you haven’t already, the exceellent 1986 ‘Lady Anne Blunt -Journals and correspondence 1878-1918’
It consists of fascinating diary extracts including much of what was later edited into ‘Bedouin tribes of the Euphrates’ and ‘Pilgrimage to Nejd’. It is a contemporaneous record of her travels in the desert and the Bedouin horses she met there,the dispersal of Ali Pasha Sherif’s stud, Crabbet and Sheikh Obeyd of course, as well as first hand insights into Polish breeding programmes in the 1880’s and interesting correspondence with such people as Miss Dillon, Huntingdon, Borden and Davenport.
It really is worth reading from many perspectives and it would be hard not to feel a deep admiration for the Lady having done so.
Joe is of course right about NO Westerner being in a position to be an absolute authority, but her long life and serious, critical (and self critical) mind does mean that her later writing (when many of her self admitted misapprehensions had been corrected) is of very significant value, much is contained of course within The Authentic Arabian Horse.
She was a modest and private person, I expect that she would have hated the idea of a film being made about her.
Lets hope it does her, and the Bedouin and their horses justice.
Apparently this is a link to a trailer, I understand that she is shown riding astride rather than side saddle which does not bode well for authenticity but I can’t watch it due to our internet speed…still coal powered here in rural Wales!
http://www.ladyanneblunt.com/trailer.php
I don’t know anything but what I saw in the trailer. It was lovely, but seeing a “Bedouin” riding a saddle and posting up the dunes at a trot does not bode well to me! I am sure we will enjoy the film, however!
I will add this Lisa, that though Lady Anne Blunt was a westerner I do feel as Edouard does that the quality of her work is beyond reproach especially as she grew in knowledge in her life’s journey. It is interesting to note that both Bedu Arabs and non-Bedu Arabs I met during my travel were not only aware of Lady Anne Blunt but there was much respect for her and some did quote her opinions or agree with some of them. My main point however is my own passing curiosity of how her “First Attempt” might be seen differently if Bedu sources could have been more participant.