Lithography of Gliocho imports
This beautiful lithography of some of the stallions imported by the famous greek dealer Nicholas Gliocho in the 1820’s can be seen at the Tylers Museum in Netherlands and online here
A blog on desert arabian horses, past, present and future
This beautiful lithography of some of the stallions imported by the famous greek dealer Nicholas Gliocho in the 1820’s can be seen at the Tylers Museum in Netherlands and online here
Merci beaucoup,
Amélie!
You find a “gold mine”.
László
I am thrilled!
I am happy you enjoyed it Lazlo. Talking about the Gliocho imports what kind of data is there about the Mezohegyes OA stallion Messrour? He was a Gliocho import, wasn’t he? I am confused as I have seen different birth dates on the shagya database. Can you enlighten me on this tail male?
I know little to illuminate it, Amelie, but yes, Messrour was a Glioccho import.
What we know about Messrour O.A.?? Not too much. His sire and dam are unknown,no strain, no breeder. We have the name of the merchant, Glioccho. But this name is sounded good in that time in context of original arabian horses.
..and the Imperial Court was bought Messrour as “an original arab”.
The “goldbrown” stallion, Messrour was born in 1820. He was one of the group of 13 stallions, imported at the same time, in 1827 from Constantinople by Glioccho.
How I know, these horses were only collected there by the Trading House Danz.
Messrour was directed to Mez?hegyes, where he was “worked” as stallion until 1829, then he was forwarded to Bábolna.
How I know, Messrour had in Bábolna 2 colts in 1831 ( one is out of 74 Tifle, one is out of 8 Gidran ( Daughter of 74 Tifle) and in 1833 had also a colt out of the mare 142 Chebba.
I didn’t searched this line, but how I know, there was some stallions at stud in Mez?hegyes under the name of Messrour ( for example Messrour V, Messsrour VII).
Any relation to the Mesrur that went to France at about that time?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mesrur
(Amelie I assume you wrie this entry in allbreed..)
YES! Indeed at the end of 1840, M. de Champagny was sent to Vienna to purchase Arabian stallions for the French National Studs. He came back with 3, namely Mesrur, Chaban and Turkoman. It has been assumed so far that these horses were the OA imported by Glioccho (and recorded as such in most french entries). But it is very unlikely. Birth dates in the French Studbook do not match the Austro-Hungarian records and as you know there was at least another Chaban in Italy at the same time (also described as the OA imported by Gliocho). The Chaban (1833) imported to France never left, he came from Vienna in 1841 and died in 1852 at the National Studs. Mesrur (1831) imported the same year was sold away in 1849. As far as I understand it, in the 1840’s, Gliocho was now selling Austro-Hungarian bred stallions to France. After this import, he sent more for private breeders including a stallion called El-Azus (1834), again likely a son of the OA El-Azus, to France and sold them via an Italian partner called Ludgi Machiado. Now the question left is: if these horses are not OA. What is their real name (meaning which numbers was cut off by the Frenchies) and what is their pedigree?
I am thrilled Lazlo. One of these 1831 colts could be the french Mesrur! Do you know their coat color? The french Mesrur was bay. Do you if one of them was sold in 1840? I guess Gliocho would be the purchaser and he was the dealer providing these stallions to de Champagny. This purchase raised major controversy. Von Fechtig who was a competitor to Gliocho for oriental horse provides pointed out the origin of these French purchases as being not equal to his “purebred arabians” (from a pedigree point of view). Ultimately, Turkman and Chaban were removed from the Pompadour breeding program they were intended to be part of. They only kept Mesrur and bred extensively from him (I have entered part of his progeny from the FSB) on allbreedpedigree as Edouard pointed out. Maybe because Mesrur was indeed the only “purebred arabian” stallion from this group?
In the year 1830. 74 Tifle was mated by Messrour O.A. ,and according to the contemporary records became pregnant, gave life to a colt,but….the colt is perished !!!
We have another chance, because 8.Gidran (by Siglavy Gidran O.A. and out of 74 Tifle O.A.) had also a colt by Messrour O.A. in 1831. I have no data about the coat color of this colt, but could be bay, because
the sire (Messrour O.A.) was goldbrown and
the dam (8 Gidran) was chestnut.
László
What is goldbrown? Because two chestnuts cannot give a bay
“Goldbrown” is a german word, created expression for a special coatcolor of horses, it means in english
“bright-,clear-,golden bay”.
I would like to read authentically “GOLDEN BROWN”.
I think it means a brown – or bay horse which one is”shining bright as gold”,or something like this.
Great match for this 8 Gidran colt and Mesrur (1831). What about Chaban (WL) Lazlo? Was he also standing at Babolna in 1833?
Goldbrown would be “mahogany bay” Edouard…as far as I understood it. The Frenches would say “bai” as they only refer to brown horses for what we call now “Noir pangaré” which is almost black except small lighter coat zones around nose, belly and sometimes eyes.
“Goldbrown” is correctly written “Goldbraun” , what is a german word, a created expression for a special coat color of a horse, it means in english:
a bright-,clear- or “Golden bay”
.. or in French “Bai doré”
László
I have never seen Chaban’s name in relation to Bábolna.
How I know, Chaban O.A. stand at Weil Stud from 1833-1839,
and stand never at Bábolna.