Rare picture of 25 Amurath-Sahib
This is a rarely seen picture of the very pretty asil Babolna mare 25-Amurath Sahib (Amurah Sahib x 221 Kuhaylan Zaid, by Kuhaylan Zaid), courtesy of Jeanne Craver.
The blood of legends like Kuhaylan Zaid, Siglavy Bagdady, Kuhaylan IV, Amurath 1881, Jussuf, Tajar, and Ghadir, to name but a few, flows in the veins of this mare and her living descendents, who are “living history” as far as the Arabian horse (in its asil and non-asil forms) is concerned.
I am never tired of repeating that the blood of the descendents of this mare constitutes one of the last hopes for an outcross to the heavily inbred European asil bloodlines.
Dear Edouard,
You have absolutely right.The sireline of Siglavy Bagdady O.A. and mare family of 60 Adjuze O.A. is still living.I think the whole asil breeding /the closed egyptian program also / needs in the future fresh blood.I hope these horses together with the Al Khamsa lines are chances for genetic variability.
László
László,
Is there a group of breeders in Europe working on these lines?
Jenny,
I know some people in Germany and Austria who has some descendants of the 60 Adjuze mare family.And I know some horses too,almost all of them, I think.It seems to me,for the historical studs,like Bábolna,this thing is not too important.Maybe the German State Stud,Marbach is an exeption.This stud preserves as a national treasure the Weil heritage.It means,the only remaining asil weil mare-family,the Murana I is living.I live in hopes always,something turns up maybe.Because there are miracles still.I have a dream,to find an asil successor of 74 Tiffle somewhere in the world.I am seeking everywhere.Can somebody help me?Maybe in South America,or…It will be interesting to take a breeder team.I would take part in it.
László
Can you tell us more why you hope there is a line to 74 Tiffle still exisitng, Laszlo?
Dear Edouard,
you know, the majority of our beloved asil arabians are not show horses,and staying not in the lights of reflectors.And how I said,i believe in miracles.About 12 years ago everybody said for me,there is no more living stallion from the old asil Bábolna lines.But one day i saw a picture in the book of Jens Sannek and Bernd Löwenherz..I found so a stallion,Wahhabit for my breeding program.
I have not enough informations,i think only,maybe in South America the line of 74 tiffle is still existing.Too many mares left Bábolna in the last 50-100 years Many asil horses were exported to South America too.Not only from Bábolna.
You should also look in Romania, former Yugoslavia, and Bulgaria. There might be something left there too.. Maybe Joksimovic can help.
Im afraid,nobody can not help us in this question in Europe.I did not see in the the studbooks of Romania,the states of former Yugoslavia,Bulgaria,Austria,Germany,Poland,Czech Republic,and..and..nowhere in Europe,i think.Who can help me with informations about the south american pedigrees?Do you think Edouard,we we had lost this line?
Hello !
Kiraly ,Laslo
Maybe you find something about Tiffle 74 on this link
http://www.shagya.ch/index.html
and you can ask Siegried Frei about the line I hope for you he knows some Asil of this line.
best regards
Dear Joksimovic,
thank you.I will ask Mr.Frei,but Iam afraid,the answer will be the same..Do You know the Slovenian breeders?Bábolna sold a very pretty grey asil mare from the 25 Amurath Sahib granddaughters,the 9. Farag II. to this country in 1995.I dont know,is this mare still living ?And what about you,are you also asil arabian breeder?
best wishes,
László
Dear Joksimovic,
thank you.I will ask Mr.Frei,but Iam afraid,the answer will be the same..
Do you know the Slovenian breeders?Bábolna sold a very pretty grey asil mare,the 9 Farag II to this country.I dont know,is this mare still living?
And what about you,are you also a breeder of asil arabians?
best wishes,
László
Dear Laszlo
I ask some friends about this mare and I hope I get the answer tomorow.No I m not a breeder I have one Anglo Arab mare in Croatia .But the Arabian horse is my Passion.And I ride Asil Arabians in Germany.Where are you in Hungary?
All the best
Dear Joksimovic,
I live in Pécs,not far from the Croatian border.Do you know breeders of asil arabians anywhere in Croatia?
László
Pecs Yes I know .The next time I come to visit you!Its near to my city Kutina. Ha ha.No sorry I know many breeder in Croatia but sorry! I think nobody bred the asil arabian.but I have ask for the grey mare .The answer came soon.
Joksimovic
Perhaps either Dr. Walter Hecker or Tamas Rombaeur could help find records of which asil horses from Hungary and Babolna were exported to South America and other destinations over the past several decades. Maybe this way you can locate something asil from 74 Tifle.
Please post what you hear about 9 Farag II, and please post a photo of your stallion Wahhabit on this blog.
Thanks, Jeanne, for posting the lovely photo of 25 Amurath Sahib.
Tzviah
Dear Laszlo,
Could you please tell us more about your program and other old Babolna asil horses that you may have located?
Thanks kindly,
Tzviah
Dear Tzviah,
first of all,I would like congratulate You for your nice asil egyptian horses.Especially for your stallion,El Aziz.I know the mother of your stallion,the very pretty kuhaylah jellabiyah mare, 20 Abbas Pasha I.El Aziz covered my Seherezade one time,and my mare gave life for a very good chestnut colt,but the colt,when he was 3 month old,died.
Thank you your interesting for my horses and breeding program.The main point of the program is based on the preservation of the old asil Bábolna lines,the mare family of 60 ADjuze OA ,and the sireline of Siglavy Bagdady OA.I look for other lines,but to find another asil horses,is impossible,I think.Maybe 74 Tiffle descendants somewhere..You are thinking together with me in this thing.Thank you.I know Mr.Hecker and Tamás Rombauer also,very well,but they are not interesting so deeply in the asil bloodlines.However Bábolna exported excellent asil horses to South America several times in the last hundred years.I hope,the WAHO publish all the studbooks on the internet soon. So at the last WAHO-congress came up.The searching will be easier… I will send some fotos for the blog in the next days . I entrust them to Edouard.
László
Dear Laszlo,
I wish you the very best of luck with your breeding goals and hope too to see all the WAHO studbooks on line sometime very soon. What you are attempting to do is so important, and you stand almost alone. If we can ever be of any help, please let me know.
Please write me privately if you know of any particular studbooks you’d like to research on this subject…I can always go visit our Registrar’s library here in Israel which should have all the WAHO member country’s printed Stud Books.
I know that this topic is not of particular interest to either Rombaeur or Dr. Hecker, but thought that one or both might have some ideas about old records that might shed some light that may be shelved somewhere.
I am so pleased that Jeanne Craver has proposed that Al Khamsa accept several old Babolna Asils onto the AK list of horses? This is done, as she writes, ‘for the honor of the thing’, because as far as we know today, there are no living descendants in North America. Surely you are aware of this, as photos of some of your horses appear in the proposal.
I wish to thank you for your kind words about El Aziz B. Currently we have leased him to an endurance rider and he has completed already two rides this year with distinction. He is always happiest when working and he is ridden between 25-50 km a day almost every day.
He also bred quite a number of mares this season; unfortunately most are not purebred, but are used for endurance and have high percentage Arab blood. A few years back he was used to help establish a new children’s sport horse breed, and we await to see what comes of this program.
I never got to see his dam, but did send Kuti, my partner to film her for us, so we have a video. She looks to be one of the best conformed Arabians I have ever seen. If you know of any information about daughters or granddaughters coming from this line we would be pleased to hear about them as we hope one day to establish a tail-female family tracing back to El Aziza.
Looking forward to seeing your next contribution to this blog.
Tzviah
Dear Laszlo
9 Farag II is born 1979 and yes she is still alive.
In Slovenija . I ve you won t more information you must write.
best regards
Joksimovic
Thank you Joksimovic,
I am very happy that mare is still living,but by the studbook she was born in 88.
Maybe a mistake ! but I look to see who is the owner and where she stay and than we know all about her .
Yes.maybe
Years ago I saw a photo of 25 Amurath Sahib. It was a 2page color photo. I will have to do some hunting to find the issue if anyone is interested.
Oh, that would be awesome! Yes, please do see if you can find the photo.
Dear Marsha,
there are few archive photos of this very important mare.
It would be nice to see another one.
Thanks in advance if you find it….
László
I would LOVE to see more photos of this mare!
Strange thing is, due to new genetic research Doktryner is her full brother as bis father can’t be Miecznik but must be Amurath Sahib. Then Doktryner had an asil daughter Barcelona 1955 out of Brussa who had offspring with British Skowronek stallions.
I was just looking up Barcelona 1955, before I see your comment. She would indeed have been asil. Lots of recent wonderful desert-bred blood in there.
Oh, this is interesting. Previous research assigned Miecznik and Doktryner to Tb-d, and Amurath Sahib to T_nonTb-d, but I see that KJ Quicksilver is Ta-b, the same as Amurath Sahib, while the other Ilderim sireline horses are Ao. I wonder which branch of Doktryner’s tail male descet tested Tb-d.