Saudi Arabia’s Asil horses
By Joe Achcar
Posted on November 16th, 2008 in General
The first Saudi Arabian Stud book was issued in 1991 by the ”Dirab Arabian Horse Center” later named the King Abdul-Aziz horse Center. In 1935 Dr. Mabrouk of the Royal Agricultural Society of Egypt, traveled to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on a horse-buying mission. He wrote about and took pictures of the horses he saw, from the stud of Prince Faysal in Taif near the Red Sea to the stud of Ibn Jiluwi stud near the Persian Gulf. As I’m now in Beirut and the book is in my stables in Damascus ,a post will follow with pictures from Dr. Mabrouk’s trip (if they are good) inshallah.
In 1936 a lot of Saudi horses died of a horsesickness, so King Abdul-Aziz received as a present a lot of mares and stallions of Syrian origin,especially from Ibn Mehayd, the sheikh of the Fad’aan Bedouins,
Looking at Volume I of the Saudi Arabian studbook one notices the following :
The strains are Hamdani Simri, Kuhaylan Abu Arqub, ‘Ubayyan al-Saifi, Kuhailan Suwayti al Firm, Kuhaylan al-Sekti, etc. Saqlawis are very rare.
A quick survey of the 1980’s Saudi mares gives the following:
Daughters of Safeer (100) a Hamdani Semri: 474 Farasha Kuhaila Sowaitia; 476 Soad Kuhaila Um Arqub; 481 Afeefa Kuhaila Sowaitia; 503 Najat Hamdania Semria; 508 Nada Hamdania Semria; 510 Shahanda Hamdania Semria; 520 Aziza Hamdania Semria
Daughters of Eidan (263) a Kuhailan Sowaiti al Firm: 544 Sameeha Obeya al Saifi; 557 Kahraman Sowaitia al Firm; 563 Abla II Obeya al Saifi; 565 Faheema Sowaitia el Firm; 570 Dalal Obeya al Saifi; 571 Azeema Obeya al Saifi; 575 Qasma Sowaitia el Firm; 583 Khoolood Obeya al Saifi; 594 Kayda Obeya al Saifi; 597 Haleema II Sowaitia el Firm; 600 Lafya Obeya al Saifi; 612 Reehana Sowaitia el Firm; 633 Mozna Sowaitia el Firm; 657 Fayhaa Sowaitia el Firm; 699 Jumaa Umm Arkub; 747 Ameena II Umm Arkub; 790 malika Hamdania Semria
Daughters of Mobarak (349) Siklawi Gidrani: 651 Leena Hamdania Semria; 653 Mabrooka III Obeya al Saifi; 683 El Majrooha Koheila el Sekti; 694 Fatat el Sharqiya Obeya al Saifi; 700 Rasama Umm Arqub; 725 Zuhriya UmmArqub; 739 Azba Obeya al Saifi; 808 El Hanouf Maanakia Sbeylia; 896 Hagir Sowaitia el Firm; 911 Seeda Obeya al Saifi
I suspect that the Hamdaniat, the Umm Arqub and the Sbeylia are originated from the Syrian mares.
Horse exported to the USA according to Vol.I
Balsam. S. 1981 K. Abu Arqub : Qabeel (Qaroonx Tanta) EAO 1973 x Baseema 208.
Bint el Shiiokh .M.1984 Qabeel x Salha 350.Siklawia Gidrania
This was the situation in 1991. Are all these Asil horses are still preserved until now ? we should ask the Saudi Arabian Stud Book authorities.
Al Wadah 1996 Kuhaylan Abu Arqub of pure Saudi breeding; Qais x Rasama (tracing to Baseema. 208. 1965); photo taken from the Asil Arabian Horse book.
November 16th, 2008 10:25 am
Hi Joe. I am enjoying your post about the Saudi horses very much. Thank you. I found this horse, Al Wadah to be very attractive. What a great picture of a very nice horse. If I read your article correctly, the Saudi today is a blend of the remaining Saudi lines, plus Syrian, plus EAO? Any chance that the remaining horses in 1936 were also bred without outside influences? I have to plead ignorance on Saudi breeding, as I am more familiar with Egyptian bloodlines. As I read the list of mares, by stallion and strain, it does not mean so much to me, as I don’t possess knowledge of them. Which are the strongest families, from which mare? Which of the stallions that you mentioned are stronger in producing influential daughters, who in turn, create vibrant families? And finally, with the strong interest in Egyptian breeding in Saudi Arabia, are there any programs focused on Saudi breeding only? Any breeding programs of all Saudi horses, outside of Saudi Arabia?
November 16th, 2008 12:20 pm
I visited this morning and was also quite smitten with this stallion and exqisite photograph! I decided to come back and inquire just about exactly what Ralph wrote! I look foward to more posts on this subject. I also wondered when visiting their web site, why they use non-Asil stallions?
November 16th, 2008 2:55 pm
Hi Ralph and Majestic lineage (your name reminds me of the famous majestic 12!!)
Glad that you appreciate these infos.
The Saudis will never admit that Syrian horses were introduced to their breeding in 1936, as a matter of fact apart from Dr Mabrouk’s writings, the infos are very scarce about their horses story.
As per today breeding, I think that only the Dirab or King Abdul Aziz horse center is still preserve old Saudis bloodlines which includes very rare strains like the Obeyan al Saifi and the Kuhailan Sowaiti al Firm and the only Kuhaila al-Sekti mare in the world.
Unfortunately non-asil horses were included in the Saudi breeding, together with EAO horses.
please do Google the Dirab center and Al Khalidiah farm you will be stuned by the quality of Al Khalidiah horses (they won many times the world championship in Paris) but also by the quality of the installations, can you imagine that apart from the Stud’s hospital, there is on the farm site a 1900m. racetrack with a grand stand and stables to accomodate the visiting horses all of them invited, all expenses paid to compete against the Al Khalidiah horses.
The picture of Al Wadah is taken from Al Asil club book. The hidden side of the Saudi horses is that in the 50’s and 60’s the Saudi princes receiveed as a present a lot Iraqi and Lebanese horses not all of them pure Arabs. I dont know if these horses were included in the Saudi Stud book.
Some people claim that the Saudi racehorse Amer,who’s sons are beating the French horses and which covering fees are 13.000$, is descendant of these horses. I researched in Vol 1 of the Dirab stud book for both his sire and dam and could not find them; it may be the Arab response to the French horses quien sabe !!
November 16th, 2008 4:35 pm
How funny you should tell the history of the Sa’ud horses when you are in no position to know anything except what you read from the stud books beginning in 1991 and from the writings of another foreigner, Dr. Mabrouk.
I have read Dr. Mabrouk’s writings, and found them offensive concerning the horses of Ibn Jilewi where he had gone in search of stock to improve that of the Egyptian horses. It has been a tradition of the Peninsula people, some Princes and many Bedouin, that they may not show you the best horses at all. What would it do for the Sa’udi people to give Mabrouk their good horses? Nothing. At least Ms. Forbis is clear on many of the earlier relationahips regarding horses going between the Arab Peninsula and Egypt. Sometimes the Egyptians might end with horses the Bedouin or Sa’uds don’t want…. as Ronald Reagan ended with half Egyptian horses.
There are still those in Arabia who know the origins of the horses, who know which carry the lines of the Syrian horses and do not breed them as Sa’ud horses. It is a tradition that thankfully dies hard, to keep track of the families and bloodlines of your horses. In a people who keep so careful track of their own bloodlines and origins and history for thousands of years, it is no surprise that they still know the horses and their origins.
This was and still is an oral tradition and there are still those who make it their business to interview the old men and the old breeders and know from whence the horses came, and whose family bred them. Just because you can’t READ it does not mean it is not true. It is more important to them than it is to non-Bedouin…. far more important.
The Jilfa, Managhi, Saqlawi may be northern horses, but the Hamdaniat have been protected by the Peninsula people for hundreds of years. Al Arqub (Abeyan Sweiti) are pure Peninsula (there is no Kehaila Arqub), and also Sbaili.
The Kehailah Asekti came from the North.
Check the lines of the pretty horse pictured. Does he have a grand dam line to a gifted horse from Jordan?
We have been blessed to have a pure Peninsula breeding program from horses that were gifted in the decade between 1950 and 1960 and a few few years beyond. Some foundatiuon horses came from Al Kharj and we have discovered the great family who bred them.
We have all remaining tail female lines of the Hamdaniyah in the US and pursue a preservation of these lines and have also a small nucleus of the Peninsula horses exported to Pieter Ter Veer in the Netherlands. We have all of the Abeyan pure lines but represented on sire lines.
Our horses have great strength and athletic ability; they do not fit the part Arab show horse standards. they are very laid back unless they are asked to perform as a war horse. Many have over a thousand miles in endurance competition and several 3000 miles in competition.
they can be seen on our web site http://www.AntiqueArab.com and if I get time I will post the url of two You-tube videos that we put up in the spring to see them in action.
One day more of this information will be written. Until then, it would be foolish to presume too much about the Peninsula people, their horses and breeding priorities. There are very few who breed the non-blended pure horses, but they are present and knowledgeable. They have the grace to not make disparaging comments about the horses of other peoples, or to assume the origins of the horses of others, but they do not breed the horses they do not know…. and that would be the horses from the north.
Edie Booth
November 16th, 2008 5:02 pm
Joe, recall that Hamdani Simri is an old strain of the House of Saud family, in their possession since the 1850s at least (e.g., the Blunt desert bred mare Sherifa, bred in 1860s), as so is Abu Arqub (not sure this is the same strain as Kuhaylan Abu/Umm Arqub).
Ma’naghi Sbayli and Kuhaylan al-Sikti are both from the northern parts of the Arabian desert, which is now part of Syria.
November 16th, 2008 5:41 pm
one you tube for some motion…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_osOws8oE&feature=email
November 16th, 2008 5:47 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1WZHtb-chk&feature=email
This is another you tube. The next one is a short one of stills of a 08 colt… he was younger than the other 4.
And the final one is a you tube video of our stallions… the resolution is not so great, because I used a lesser camera, but you can at least see them. I am sorry I cannot stay on this blog for more conversation, but I have endurance ride results to tabulate with over 100 riders, and I have to be ready for work tomorrow.
Edie
November 16th, 2008 5:51 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiXdY-XnGYY&feature=email
November 16th, 2008 5:57 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSrbVtVZzkY&feature=email
Stallions— only three of 8.
The black horse, AAS AL SAKB+/, that Thomas (our son) rides past twice (in the mare pasture with a bunch of mares trying to get his attention) has just under 3000 endurance miles in competition.
The next one, the grey is AAS ENAN, and has no babies on the ground, so we have used him exclusively this fall breeding season… `maybe` 3 settled.
November 16th, 2008 10:22 pm
AAS Enan is the one with the Jalam al-Ubayyan x Sindidah cross repeated four times, right? This horse is so precious..
November 16th, 2008 10:40 pm
To Edie Booth
Please read my answers,thank you.
How funny you should tell the history of the Sa’ud horses when you are in no position to know anything except what you read from the stud books beginning in 1991 and from the writings of another foreigner, Dr. Mabrouk.
Answer: I will love to read something else about the Saudi horses,can you give me some other sources?
I have read Dr. Mabrouk’s writings, and found them offensive
Answer:this is your problem ,we never heard a Saudi complaining about this material ,on the contrary, when I wrote ,in Arabic, an article on King Abdel Aziz horses in 2000,mentionnig Mabrouk’s, I received a letter from the Saudi embassy in Beirut thanking me for it
concerning the horses of Ibn Jilewi where he had gone in search of stock to improve that of the Egyptian horses. It has been a tradition of the Peninsula people, some Princes and many Bedouin, that they may not show you the best horses at all. What would it do for the Sa’udi people to give Mabrouk their good horses? Nothing. At least Ms. Forbis is clear on many of the earlier relationahips regarding horses going between the Arab Peninsula and Egypt. Sometimes the Egyptians might end with horses the Bedouin or Sa’uds don’t want…. as Ronald Reagan ended with half Egyptian horses.
Answer :it seems that you are not familiar with our part of the world history, I’m an Arab ,I suppose that you are not.
When the Peninsula princes were sending horses to the Khedive they where obliged in sending the best they have , because in 1813/1817the Egyptian army under Prince Tussun entered Nejd ,defeated the Wahabis destroyed their capital Deria, took Abdallah es Saud to Istambul , throw him in the Bosphore and took their horses away. The relationship between the Khedive and the Sauds was always from a King to his subjects. May I remind you that the Khedive and later his sons until King Farouk (1952) where the most important people in the Middle East
There are still those in Arabia who know the origins of the horses, who know which carry the lines of the Syrian horses and do not breed them as Sa’ud horses. It is a tradition that thankfully dies hard, to keep track of the families and bloodlines of your horses. In a people who keep so careful track of their own bloodlines and origins and history for thousands of years, it is no surprise that they still know the horses and their origins.
Answer :Again,please send us their addresses ,we write to them in Arabic or English, then we will be more acquainted with their horses history. The only written thing we know(a part Dr Mabrouk’s is when Dr Amin Zaheer, from Egypt, wrote in 1959
”In Saudi Arabia where it is supposed that the Arabian horse originated, it is a fact that no more highly distinguished individuals exists in this country anymore..Not only this but also English Thoroughbreds-as we lately heard-are introduced to the country to improve the original stock”
Forbis, Authentic Arabian bloodstock p.368
is was and still is an oral tradition and there are still those who make it their business to interview the old men and the old breeders and know from whence the horses came, and whose family bred them. Just because you can’t READ it does not mean it is not true. It is more important to them than it is to non-Bedouin…. far more important.
Answer: you are using on your site a Raswan picture on a Syrian mare, cant you find a picture of a Saudi horse breeder on his Saudi horse instead?
The Jilfa, Managhi, Saqlawi may be northern horses, but the Hamdaniat have been protected by the Peninsula people for hundreds of years. Al Arqub (Abeyan Sweiti) are pure Peninsula (there is no Kehaila Arqub), and also Sbaili.
The Kehailah Asekti came from the North.
Check the lines of the pretty horse pictured. Does he have a grand dam line to a gifted horse from Jordan?
Answer : his 4 grand dams are Qortoba 225,Baseema 208,Ansaf 158,hadia 43 all original Saudi mares with no ties to Jordan ,if there is please inform us.
We have been blessed to have a pure Peninsula breeding program from horses that were gifted in the decade between 1950 and 1960 and a few few years beyond. Some foundatiuon horses came from Al Kharj and we have discovered the great family who bred them.
Answer: who is this family?Is she still breed horses?
We have all remaining tail female lines of the Hamdaniyah in the US and pursue a preservation of these lines and have also a small nucleus of the Peninsula horses exported to Pieter Ter Veer in the Netherlands. We have all of the Abeyan pure lines but represented on sire lines.
Our horses have great strength and athletic ability; they do not fit the part Arab show horse standards. they are very laid back unless they are asked to perform as a war horse. Many have over a thousand miles in endurance competition and several 3000 miles in competition.
they can be seen on our web site http://www.AntiqueArab.com and if I get time I will post the url of two You-tube videos that we put up in the spring to see them in action.
One day more of this information will be written. Until then, it would be foolish to presume too much about the Peninsula people, their horses and breeding priorities. There are very few who breed the non-blended pure horses, but they are present and knowledgeable. They have the grace to not make disparaging comments about the horses of other peoples, or to assume the origins of the horses of others, but they do not breed the horses they do not know…. and that would be the horses from the north.
Edie Booth
November 17th, 2008 2:43 pm
Some information taken from Dr Mabrouk book,about his trip to Saudi Arabia June 1936.
Mabrouk was Sheikh Abdallah Sleiman Defense and Finance minister guest .The Sheikh was also an Arab horse breeder.
Visiting Prince Faysal stud; the Prince told them that he was sorry to inform that the Bedu in Nejd and Hedjaz stopped breeding Arab horses after the peace in the Kingdom moreover the Fakhoush sickness killed a lot of horses and” that 90% of the present horses are imported from the North from Syria or Iraq” Mabrouk inspected more than 200 Mares and foals belonging to Emir Faysal ,to Sheikh Sleiman or to the Army.
Emir Faysal (the future King) speaking on these horses told Mabrouk “I can not give you any information about these mares as the are imported”
King Abdul Aziz told Mabrouk that he witnessed more than 450 mares killed by machine gunin one battle and that today there is no more small breeders, only Princes breed Arab horses.
Inspecting the horse at the King Farm at el Kharj Mabrouk noticed the lack of good Saudi stallions, that’s why the King had to import non-Nejdi stallions.
The best stallion Mabrouk saw was the bay “El Mukhaladi”a gift from Prince Fawaz el Shaalan who bought him from Moujhem Ibn Mehayd the Sheikh of the Fedaan. Mabrouk remembered that he saw a “Al Mukhaladi” son racing and winning in Cairo under the colors of the Baron Empain from Belgium.
In conclusion Mabrouk gave the following information on the Hamdaniat: The one belonging to Sheikh Abdallah Sleiman were imported from Sheikh Mutlak al Jarba from Shammar Syria
..While the Hamdaniat of Ibn Juluwi are Hamdaniat Semri of Ibn Ghayam from the Harb tribe .One of them is “Manak “ given by the King as a coronation gift to King George VI.
As for the Kuheilan al Soweiti al firm they are originated from Kuhailan Om el Maaref from the Sbaa –Gomussa then to to the Zfeir on the (Koweit Iraqi Saudi borders today) they were given the name of Sowaiti because of their breeders:Hamud Ibn Soweit and Ata ibn Sowait .your information I quote:” Al Arqub (Abeyan Sweiti) are pure Peninsula (there is no Kehaila Arqub)”, is incorrect there is no Abeyan Sweiti.
November 17th, 2008 11:46 pm
My dear pure man .Thank you for your precious informations.
I’m not affirming anything ,just quoting Mabrouk’s book.
Never said than el Sekti was not an Arab horse!!
As for marketing for Syrian horses ,they dont need me,as you seem so well informed,please read in your books and in the abbas pasha manuscript on the Syrian desert horses influence on Arab horses.
as for your information about hybridization and mixture horses,please be informed that in theses countries ,my countries,never it was said that all the horses were pure Arab horses,Damoiseau in 1832 wrote about the presence of Turkoman horses from the Tchoukour -Ova breed in Syria and on the presence of Barak Arabs (non pure)even in the Mameluke times when the Prince of Damascus sent horses as present to the Cairo Sultan Barkuk he made two lists one of the pure Arab horses and one for the others.
Keep breeding your horses? and let us breed our Syrian desert horses in peace.Thank you